Help please!!locked up?? inboard

[Dukksoup]

Hi I have a 1994 regal 4.3 alpha1 mercruiser, last year or aprox. 5 running engine hours ago I had the complete bottom leg re-sealed, everything had seemed fine, I took it out today for the first time, after cruising a bit I shut it off, when I was ready to take off again I went to turn the key and all it will do is clunk, it seems like the starter engages the flywheel and thats it, the battery is fine, it's like something locked up???? after trying a few more times, the starter just spins now, you cant' here the bendix engage to the flywheel, does any one have any ideas at all on this ?? would really be appreciated, not sure if this is bottom leg related?? or mabey a bad starter would be nice(cheaper)??

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

First thing i would do is pull the spark plugs and turn it over by hand.It sounds like water in the cylinders and you may have killed the starter by several attempts to start it while it's hydro locked.

If it is water it needs to come out ASAP.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

^ I agree. And if you forced it enough to break the starter there is a chance that the connecting rods are now bent.

First things first, pull the plugs and look for water in the cylinders.

 

[Dukksoup]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

First thing i would do is pull the spark plugs and turn it over by hand.It sounds like water in the cylinders and you may have killed the starter by several attempts to start it while it's hydro locked.

If it is water it needs to come out ASAP.

I will pull out plugs tomorrow, I really can't see how water would get in there?? I was really thinking it's something with the lower leg some how??There was nothing leading up to this I simply shut it off and went to start and that clunking started, and yes I probably did hoop the bendex on the starter by trying over and over, Do you think at all possible mabey just the starter is the problem in the first place??, sorry for the stpid newb questions, just trying to understand this problem before I bring it to the dealer and he really BENDS me over...........thanx so much for your replies

 

[spudshaft]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

Just as a few guesses - 1. starter solenoid (spinning now doesn't really match though). 2. bad battery connection. 3. bad starter. If it is a bad motor, I think the 4.3, 5.0 and 5.7 Chevy based motors all have the same "transmission" bolt pattern.

 

[180shabah]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

Does the engine turn by hand???
No??
Remove the plugs and try again
still no???
Pull the drive and try again
by now you will have the problem isolated

you asked how water gets into the cylinders - your exhaust is water jacketed, a leak drops water in through the exhaust valves

OR

"run on" can suck the water right out of perfectly good manifolds.

 

[Dukksoup]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

Will try all 3 steps tomorrow, and post results, thank you so much!!!

 

[Dukksoup]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

Does the engine turn by hand???
No??
Remove the plugs and try again
still no???
Pull the drive and try again
by now you will have the problem isolated

you asked how water gets into the cylinders - your exhaust is water jacketed, a leak drops water in through the exhaust valves

OR

"run on" can suck the water right out of perfectly good manifolds.

180shabah, your a genius!! thx you, I removed the starter, and yes I will have to replace it from me attempting to start it when it was locked up, I removed all 6 plugs, engine turns over fine, when turning the crank over by hand I had water coming out of all 3 cylinders on theport side of engine block, mostly on the rear cylinder, and I should mention occasionally I do have a problem with " run on" when I initially turned the engine off at the lake yesterday there was run on, I'm assuming this caused the cylinders to fill with water, can you tell me the next step on ''WHAT TO DO"" do I put plugs and starter back in , and attempt to start?? this may save me from bringing it in, thx so much for any replies

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

Shoot those cylinders up with WD40 NOW, before the rust set in and causes real damage....

 

[Dukksoup]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

Shoot those cylinders up with WD40 NOW, before the rust set in and causes real damage....

Yes thanx thats exactly what I did, I sprayed them with storage seal, also wondering if anyone knows if the starter would be the same for it as an automotive starter for a 4.3?

 

[180shabah]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

An auto starter is NOT the same, it is not ignition protected.

You have the water out, the sooner you get it running at temp the better, you want to get it dried out. To prevent run on, always let the engine cool down before you tour it off.

How old are the manifolds? Have they been leak tested?

 

[Dukksoup]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

An auto starter is NOT the same, it is not ignition protected.

You have the water out, the sooner you get it running at temp the better, you want to get it dried out. To prevent run on, always let the engine cool down before you tour it off.

How old are the manifolds? Have they been leak tested?

How exactly does that ignition protestion work on a marine starter, what happens if I use an automotive starter?, the manifolds are original (1994) never touched, the boat has very very low hours
, thnx

 

[180shabah]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

electric motors generate sparks.

marine units use baffles and screens to isolate the sparks, so they do not ignite the fuel vapors trapped in the bilge.

You DO NOT want to go BOOM!!!!!

 

[Dukksoup]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

electric motors generate sparks.

marine units use baffles and screens to isolate the sparks, so they do not ignite the fuel vapors trapped in the bilge.

You DO NOT want to go BOOM!!!!![/QUOT


Well said, will get the proper starter...thank you!

 

[Dukksoup]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

Is there something else I should do before attempting to start?hopefully it was the "run on" that created this?

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

^ I agree. And if you forced it enough to break the starter there is a chance that the connecting rods are now bent.

First things first, pull the plugs and look for water in the cylinders.

That's really unlikely. The starter just doesn't have enough "poop" to bend a rod.......

hopefully it was the "run on" that created this?

You really should not be "hoping" that you have fixed it. This problem is frequently caused by an exhaust manifold-riser leak.


When you shut down, a small amount of water (above the riser gasket) leaks past the gasket and back into an open exhaust valve.

Then when you try to crank it, the engine "hydro-locks" and won't turn until you can squeeze the water past the rings. It only takes a little bit, and that little bit of water ends up in the pan.

Subsequent running usually evaporates the water out so you don't end up with a LOT in the pan......but it will do it every time you shut it down.


The problem comes when you shut it down (on the "muffs") for winter.

The water runs in until you turn off the water hose! Then the water sits in the engine until next Spring when you decide to run the engine.

It probably would leak past the rings in several months but not before you rust that cyl and valves fairly extensively!


Take the BOTH risers off the manifolds and inspect the manifolds/risers & replace the riser gaskets.


Cheers,


Rick

 

[Dukksoup]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

I'm learning more and more about this each time , and appreciate everyones help and suggestions, It was mentioned earlier that ''ENGINE RUN ON'' would cause this, I do have a problem with that everytime I shut the engine off and wondering if that is the most likely culprit?? I would hate to remove the risers if its unnessasary. I already took out the starter attempting to start in when it was locked up, the starter is now being rebuilt. Is it a good idea to install the starter and run the engine with muffs and see what happens, looking for any suggestions recommended....

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

My previously installed OMC 460 did it the whole last summer i used it.

Every time I shut it down it would briefly hydro-lock (and my starter couldn't turn it over either!) ....but then after a couple of tries, it would finally start.

It never did "diesel" on shut down. If yours does "diesel", or Run-on, then you now know better. let it cool a little before you shut it down.....also NEVER turn off the key whilst underway.....I.E. slow down, put it in neutral, let it cool a little at idle... and THEN shut it off.....

If it didn't diesel, then you may have a riser gasket leak (or a cracked manifold or riser).


In either case, you probably do need to remove both risers and inspect/replace the gaskets if they haven't been done in a long time (or ever!!)

You'll destroy the gaskets getting them off. That's a good enough reason to replace them!



Cheers,


Rick

 

[Dukksoup]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

Yes Rick it does ''RUN ON '' almost everytime, and yes I am the culprit for that by NOT letting it cool down, I will remove and replace the gaskets on the risers, they have never been done, what exactly am I looking for in there when I do have them off, Like I said I really hope it was the run on that caused this, and nothing cracked etc... thx agn

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Help please!!locked up?? inboard

You're really looking for evidence of a leak. in the gasket area. It is usually fairly obvious. If the gasket did not leak it's possible that the riser or manifold has leaked but at this point I would say that the "dieseling" is the culprit.

There are some that suggest that it's also possible that the engine may be running rich enough (or the choke is stuck) and has caused some carbon deposits inside.

Those carbon deposits may be glowing hot and are contributing to the run-on problem.

Changing your plugs can help if they're carbon'd up etc.

I think there is a discussion of run-on in the "Adults-Only" sticky-message at the top of this forum. Mercruiser also has something on it I think in their trouble shooting section of most of their service manuals.

Yes Rick it does ''RUN ON '' almost everytime, and yes I am the culprit for that by NOT letting it cool down, I will remove and replace the gaskets on the risers, they have never been done, what exactly am I looking for in there when I do have them off, Like I said I really hope it was the run on that caused this, and nothing cracked etc... thx agn