7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

[MahtyMaht]

I got this motor 3 years ago on ebay out of Alabama. Model # 217-588751, serial # 48 006884. I've had a lot of fun with this stupid thing, but it hates going from fast to slow. It just dies, then it's hard to start. I recently put a red Atom Computer Ignition module on it. Ran great in the can, took me a mile up the river and cratered. Turned out to be the flapper gasket, which I keep in stock at the house. Replaced the flapper and the thicker black gasket that goes under it, fuel pump element looks good under the magnifying glass. ran great in the can, took it to the drink. Got into some weeds, loaded the motor, which died, then absolutely would not restart. This the same problem it's always had, just worse now with new gaskets. When it dies, it has to sit for 40 minutes before it'll light off and run again. What am I missing here, people?

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

I got this motor 3 years ago on ebay out of Alabama. Model # 217-588751, serial # 48 006884. I've had a lot of fun with this stupid thing, but it hates going from fast to slow. It just dies, then it's hard to start. I recently put a red Atom Computer Ignition module on it. Ran great in the can, took me a mile up the river and cratered. Turned out to be the flapper gasket, which I keep in stock at the house. Replaced the flapper and the thicker black gasket that goes under it, fuel pump element looks good under the magnifying glass. ran great in the can, took it to the drink. Got into some weeds, loaded the motor, which died, then absolutely would not restart. This the same problem it's always had, just worse now with new gaskets. When it dies, it has to sit for 40 minutes before it'll light off and run again. What am I missing here, people?

A coil or condenser that fails when hot would be my first guess.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

The points and condenser are not being used here. The 'Atom Computer Ignition' converts single and twin two and four strokes to electronic ignition. I'd bet my truck that this is a fuel delivery problem, because every time I check for spark, I'm getting blue fire.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

I have found that the thicker flapper valve gaskesket needs some exacto knife work and the gas inlet it self needs to be checked for flush, and tightened with even torque.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

I'll have to sneak a peek at that thick flapper gasket - what am I looking for? I guess that would make sense - if the thick one is steppin' on the thin one, the thin one can't flap. Thanks, man! Even if it doesn't help this time, that's durned good to know.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

The flapper valve gasket can only fit one way, I had trouble with the fit at the dogleg in the gasket, I trimmed it there so it would set properly and the flapper valve would align in the right position, also reading over your problem it seems like a fuel issue, check float level and float needle clip position, both of these things can cause a float to stick,
so you run for awhile then she starves for gas...just my guess here

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

---so you run for awhile then she starves for gas...just my guess here

I'd go with that too had he not said:

<When it dies, it has to sit for 40 minutes before it'll light off and run again.>

Sounds like a classic description of a coil or condenser that fails when hot. He sez he's taken the condenser out of the equation so that just leaves the coil.
Doesn't take long for a floatbowl to refill but 30 minutes -an hour is typical of an old coil dying under heat load.
The resolution will be interesting in any case.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

I hear you on the coil and your probably right, ( I've learned the odds are all against me ) but I could see where a sticking float needle could take a spell to fill up the bowel just seeping, I know that I usually run my Eska once a week and never open the gas valve so it leaks through and fills the bowel, I was applying the same principle to the needle valve, it sticks and you run out of gas 40 min later its filled the bowel and releaved the pressure on the needle alowing a little more fuel in then bam its stuck again, all I know is that the needle clip can produce that effect when installed backwards as I have preached in the past the clip will change the position of the needle on the float tang, one position moves it to the center and the other moves the needle closer to the wall of the tube causing it to drag and hang shut or barely shut

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

I know I got that little keeper on the way the Tec Two Stroke book said to do it - it stuck in my head, because I could NOT see by looking at it, what difference it would make, and I did'nt want to find out the hard way. I haven't been able to mess with it lately, as my stepson got a replacement engine for his boat, and I'm having to prep it to get it back in the boat. It's a 454 with a Bravo 1, and I'll never know what made me say I'd take a crack at it.......... I'll post again when I'm out from under this monster.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

Got a chance to mess with that thang yesterday - Decided to just replace the viton seat. Couldn't find the old one to save my *(#. Just wasn't in there. Alrighty, then - we're in the twilight zone now. OK, so, I put a new viton seat in it, and when the needle hung out too far to set the float height, I installed a shorter needle, and set the float height. (This was, of course, after I pulled the seat, and checked again with a magnifying glass and a MagLite for the old one). Passed the trash can test, but I know it's not right, this is all crap, so I take it to the creek and light it up on the boat. Starts, runs OK, not quite full power, and I see that it's drooling briskly out of the overflow hole at the top of the carb body casting. Also, when I pump it up with the in line primer bulb, it fills the float chamber, and blows out the overflow hole. I didn't even know it had one of those. It also used to have a float damper spring that's not there, although I may have thrown that out. I'm putting a new damper spring on the float hinge pin, but make no mistake, this is still all crap. I don't know what my problem is, and I'm not getting closer to finding it that I can see. I'm just getting closer to making this thing run, and oh, yes, I will.

 

[Tom @ Buzzard Bluff]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

I suspect that you need to take a better look at that fuel pump 'red sock'. Your description of the leakage sure suggests failure. At this point I'd just replace it were I in your shoes!

And don't forget proper orientation----inclined at 45 degrees off vertical toward the carb throat at the top.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

That's exactly what's going to happen today - We'll see what happens.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

Had to order the durn thangs, ordered 2, one for a spare.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

Ordered two red sock fuel pump elements, installed one @ the requisite 45 degree angle, reassembled, and tank tested the motor. Once again it fired right up, as if to say, "Let's go down to the creek, so I can work you to death on the starter rope after I've got ya two miles from the ramp, ya gullible rube sucker". So, of course I went to the creek with it. Same old song and dance - Runs great till I try to go from high or moderate rpm to idle, then it dies flooded. I saw fuel sheen on the water. I disconnected the fuel line, choked with a WOT, and yanked it til it had no more fuel/air fog in the carb throat. Hooked the fuel line back up, primed it lightly, and it would fire right up. It still acts to me like a bad fuel pump element, it just isn't. The coil, by the way, has less than a season on it. I kept the old one cause I like having a stock of spare parts. WTF, gentlemen? W indeed TF.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

My head is so flat, helicopters follow me around thinkin' it's a helipad. That fuel pump element - I put it in at 45 degrees, but it was the wrong 45. So it was 90 degrees away from where it's supposed to be. Seems to me that would put the flat sides of the element away from the fuel inlet hole, meaning little or no fuel. I'll fix it, but I'm not optimistic.

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

My head is so flat, helicopters follow me around thinkin' it's a helipad

Hair and brains don't grow in the same place...

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

I'm preparing to hang myself, right after I get a bonfire cookin' hot enough to melt Tecumseh aluminum. I feel like I've lost my ability to zip my own pants. This thing still squirts fuel out the overflow when I prime the bowl with the inline squeeze pump This is, of course CRAP. Why will the new needle not friggin' seat in the new seat? Forget the coil, not the problem, forget the long end of the needle retainer clip, it's pointed at the choke, and I have that superfluous float vibration damper spring in there, and this stinkin' thing flows freely with the carb off, upside down, and me blowing into the fuel inlet, snaps shut when I turn it right side up. COME ON! I've lost the whole season with this. WTF!!

 

[mrcrabs]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

I have installed the occasional viton seat that would never seal, generally there real old stock and kind of hard to begin with and the seat needs to be a little squishy between your fingers., also they get can even get slightly cocked when installed with the wrong kind of tool.

and I have that superfluous float vibration damper spring in there

never seen a Eska with or even need that spring

I'm preparing to hang myself, right after I get a bonfire cookin' hot enough to melt Tecumseh aluminum

You need to calm down sir or were going to have to give you a field test for oil consumption which could result in the loss of your Eska license

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

So far this season, I don't see a need for my eska lisence. AAaaaaammmmm........AAAAaaaaaammmmmmmmmmm...... I'm doing my meditation chant. Nope - didn't work, still pi$$ed. The seat was nice and supple, and I stuffed it in there with a drill shank. It's not upside down, either. I hate it that the only information you guys get is what I think to tell you. I've never used the damper spring before, I just saw in the Tec 2 stroke book, that it was used on series II 'high tilt' engines.

 

[MahtyMaht]

Re: 7.5 HP Gamefisher dies, won't start

Disassembled the carb yesterday, and just sat there staring at the parts. In looking down the seat hole with a magnifying glass, I notice there's a step down there, and the hole diameter is reduced about .025" for a distance about equal to the thickness of the viton seat. The seat won't go down there, though. I reassembled the thing and put it in the water, and it suddenly became willing to transition from high to low RPM. I'm cruising down the creek, picked up some seaweed, and I'm going to have to kill the motor to clear the prop. To prevent the usual flooding, I disconnected the fuel line till it died, cleared the prop, and it wouldn't start. I thought it must be a temp related thing, and immediately thought about the earlier response here about the coil. I threw my drink over the side, (I know, I know, it's alcohol abuse), and used the mug to bail water onto the engine and flywheel. BAM! Started right up. Still not buying the coil, but I am thinkin' ignition. I get it home, and I notice the timing cam doesn't contact the throttle linkage till the carb is at half throttle. Huh? Wut wut? I've reset the cam so it starts advancing the timing just above idle, and maxes out at max throttle. We'll see. Think I'm on the right track?