Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

[jennis9]

Seems like this summer there has been a rash of incidents on Lake Erie. This latest one has a good ending... swamped boat - living fishermen. the members of our local fishing forum are hoping to be able to talk to the fishermen and learn what might have happened so this can be avoided and use it as a tool for us all to be safer on the water. We can speculate, but this could happen to any one of us... the good news is they had PFDs, a waterproof radio and cell phone.

I am posting this in the restoration forum because I know one common question on deck replacement is about foam... it is hard to rip out and clean up and scrub off, and it is the easiest part to want to skip over.

I did not take this photo from a day later. the boat was salvaged yesterday
http://www.ohiogamefishing.com/community/showthread.php?p=1060828#post1060828

the updated story:
http://starbeacon.com/local/x1778834057/Daring-rescue

Always good to get a reminder that a pretty boat can swamp too.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

Great story.

I have to confess...... I bet the problems were due to the open bow configuration....... open bow's swamp easier....... yup.... mine is an open bow too.

So I would equate this as.........

Build and include foam + Swamping = future restoration
Build and delete foam + Swamping = SUNK boat

 

[lucid484]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

But if you rebuilt a deck properly and sealed all the compartments....how would the foam get wet in the first place? seems like a part in rebuilding you dont want to delete.....I have a 21' cuddy that had foam but coast guard regs say my vessel doesnt need it.....maybe ill put it back in anyway!

 

[jennis9]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

they have updated the news article to include a few more details. Erie kicked up from 2's to 5's in minutes - these guys were ten miles out from shore (probably in about 70-77'). Good thing it was floating so the CG could find them easier.

It's all speculation at this point on how it swamped... BUT my suspicion is if you look at the transom -- it is low -- add the kicker mount and it may have added weight to the rear of the vessel that could take on water easily. The boat had a 40hp merc, 9.9 merc and was a 19' sylvan - under powered, but who knows what was going on when they knew they were in trouble. Was the bilge working/on, were they trolling with the waves, too many questions to answer without the witnesses.

 

[jennis9]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

Build and include foam + Swamping = future restoration
Build and delete foam + Swamping = SUNK boat

yup.

 

[lucid484]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

they have updated the news article to include a few more details. Erie kicked up from 2's to 5's in minutes - these guys were ten miles out from shore (probably in about 70-77'). Good thing it was floating so the CG could find them easier.

It's all speculation at this point on how it swamped... BUT my suspicion is if you look at the transom -- it is low -- add the kicker mount and it may have added weight to the rear of the vessel that could take on water easily. The boat had a 40hp merc, 9.9 merc and was a 19' sylvan - under powered, but who knows what was going on when they knew they were in trouble. Was the bilge working/on, were they trolling with the waves, too many questions to answer without the witnesses.

10 miles out in that!!! WTF were they thinking!

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

From reading the article it sounds like they were trolling with the waves rather than tacking at 45 degree angles to keep the stern protected from swells.

They probably wanted to keep trolling for fish on the way in when they should've had that 40hp wide open headed for port.

What strikes me is that they were out 10 miles with an underpowered boat. Not a good plan. A 19' aluminum rig should at least have 70hp minimum to be out in open water.

Foam is your friend Another thread this week was posted where a guy's tin boat sunk in 5 seconds from anchoring on the stern...because he had rebuilt it with zero foam in the boat.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

I was on the fence about putting foam back in my boat. But then I thought about what would happen if I swamped. I know I would be feeling like a real jacka__ watching my boat sink like a stone. I appreciate you sharing those pictures. That's exactly what we're trying to achieve with our foamage.

 

[oops!]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

tho i hate what water sucking foam does,
i have been beginning to see the merit of the stuff for the weaker hulls. strong or weak hull, the foam in that boat was well placed, as the boat didnt capsize, it swamped to the gunnels and sat there.

and that is one case where your darn glad the foam was there, 10 miles out on erie....

now we just have to find a way to let the junk make the water drain properly, and all will be well.

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

now we just have to find a way to let the junk make the water drain properly, and all will be well.

Some of us have used the pool noodles on our aluminum hulls for below-deck foam with the hopes that the open channels in the noodles will allow for better drainage than solid blocks.

Of course we don't need as much structural support from the foam as some 'glass rigs do.

I haven't swamped the rig to test mine yet though so it's all speculation at this point

 

[E_Man]

Alternative to foam

Alternative to foam

Hey,

I guess this question was inevitably coming:
Besides the regular foam and pool noodles, what else can we use in between the layers of our hulls that isn`t suseptable to water damage by a cracked hull?

The reason I ask this question is because I just discovered a crack in the keel of my old Crestliner hull and am in the process of fixing it entirely from the outside after letting all the water drain. Its just not worth it to rip out the entire floor of this vessel due to its age.

Thanks,

E.

 

[oops!]

Re: Alternative to foam

Re: Alternative to foam

Hey,

I guess this question was inevitably coming:
Besides the regular foam and pool noodles, what else can we use in between the layers of our hulls that isn`t suseptable to water damage by a cracked hull?

The reason I ask this question is because I just discovered a crack in the keel of my old Crestliner hull and am in the process of fixing it entirely from the outside after letting all the water drain. Its just not worth it to rip out the entire floor of this vessel due to its age.

Thanks,

E.

search wet foam rot prevention.....one of the best talks about everything from ping pong balls to life jackets for flotation.

i would like to try a new trick tho....
1. place pex pipe in hull where you want dranage channels.
2 cover area with plastic
3.pour foam and let cure
4. remove foam by pulling up the plastic
5. remove the pex pipe
6. pull plastic off foam.
7. replace foam

the foam SHOULD have a hard smooth side where the plastic was, this would prevent fast water intrusion and the limber channels would still be there where the pex pipe was.

 

[oops!]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

I haven't swamped the rig to test mine yet though so it's all speculation at this point

i suggest you not test the theory

 

[oops!]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

i posted this on another thread but ill post it again here because it is approate to the discussion.

iboater robj is in town staying at a resort on gelattly bay on the okanagan lake bc.

he was floating with his family in the bay (it was on his arriva he built iboats style. you should see that boat, wow. search his name and click the link in his sig) any how.....

he witnessed a 20 something footer jet boat (you know the kind with the twin headers up in the air and very low freeboard) doing doughnuts and using the jet to spary down his buddies on a different boat.....rob said the guy was being a total IDIOT.
well he must have had his own wake come over the back of the boat, rob said in seconds his back end was under the water, his bow went straight up in the air......then down it went ! straight to davy jones locker. looked like the titanic.
rob dove in the water to help. the driver and his passenger got out and all survived. but the bay was littered with coolers and the like.
thats at least 12 grand straight down because no foam (or flotation)
rob said he cruised the area and its only in 32 feet of water !

lessons can be learned from this...
im not going to state the obvious of why the boat went under.

.the boat went under in about 2 seconds. that means no time for the driver or the passengers to react. not even enough time to grab a life jacket.

sinkings can happen fast...at least allways have your pfd with in grabbing range, not stuffed under b2b loungers where you have to wrestle to get them.

cheers
oops

 

[oops!]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

here is the link.

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-56187-101-.htm#56187

 

[The Hammer]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

I have read all the posts including the one in the links with great interest. It is mentioned several times that the boat is underpowered so my question is what would more power have done to avoid getting swamped like this? I want to get a different boat for myself and I want to be able to get out on Lake Ontario safely but still want to get on the smaller lakes thats why I'm asking about the power, I have had my boat out a couple time on Lake Ontario and ran it at 1/4 throttle through the waves and felt quit safe but it was a good day.

 

[jspano]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

I have read all the posts including the one in the links with great interest. It is mentioned several times that the boat is underpowered so my question is what would more power have done to avoid getting swamped like this? I want to get a different boat for myself and I want to be able to get out on Lake Ontario safely but still want to get on the smaller lakes thats why I'm asking about the power, I have had my boat out a couple time on Lake Ontario and ran it at 1/4 throttle through the waves and felt quit safe but it was a good day.

i was on a small boat 16 fter that had a 6 cyl merc on it when it swamp by it's own wave(circling around) that big mtr got us in but REAL SLOW. a swamped boat is HEAVY!!!! more power they might have been able to power out and drain the boat. the boat i was on was low cut it filled in an instant, it came over the closed bow and swamped. i had to sit on the very tip of the bow to balance it off and limped in.

 

[Isaacm1986]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

The more i read stories, the more I understand the importance of flotation foam. It would be a HUGE bummer to have your restored boat sink because there was no foam in it.

 

[The Hammer]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

i was on a small boat 16 fter that had a 6 cyl merc on it when it swamp by it's own wave(circling around) that big mtr got us in but REAL SLOW. a swamped boat is HEAVY!!!! more power they might have been able to power out and drain the boat. the boat i was on was low cut it filled in an instant, it came over the closed bow and swamped. i had to sit on the very tip of the bow to balance it off and limped in.

Never would have thought of it that way, thanks I'm glad I asked now.

 

[jennis9]

Re: Swamped boat... the importance of good foam and a radio

Hammer,

That boat could have been powered just fine for an inland lake -- but they decided to go 10 miles out in 77' of water on Lake Erie. Unlike the other great lakes which resemble a tea cup -- Erie is like a saucer. Shallower than the rest - but when it kicks up from 2's to 5's - it TURNS ON and can be a hairy ride no matter what boat you're in - and from some areas - the spot they were in takes an hour to motor to.

The day that boat went out - the weather was OK - I wouldn't have gone out that far in my 22' boat but this time of year, that's where the fish are. The fishing reports from that area were smokin' for the week - but the weather was unpredictable - makes it tempting for a lot of guys in boats that are ill-equiped. IMO, that boat was ill-equiped for that trip that day out on the lake. If that boat would have gone down like the cigarette boat OOPS mentioned, they would have had a tough time finding those guys.

The open bow too, has been disputed in other discussions as a hazard - but I love mine. In rougher rides back to the marina - I usually put the bow cover on. Got that tip from the boaters safety course and it really makes sense if you get stuck out in rougher water.

You just have to know your limits and call it when the weather gets rough.

Thumbs up for foam.