Wait, the motor needs oil???

[beniop]

So the 60HP '96 Johnson 3cyl VRO cut out on my wife (thank goodness the tidal creek was coming in and she was upstream from the dock!). When I listened to the engine and heard the knocking sound coming from the motor, I checked the VRO reservoir, and it was bone dry. I take the blame for not making a checklist for her; she is a pilot after all.

After refilling with oil, priming, running, & priming, while running some more the oil warning horn (beep every other second) started sounding. I'm thinking the pump is dead/dying because I assume it is self-lubricating and really hates not having any lubricant for that purpose.

Is it possible to test the VRO pump without running the engine, like, pull it off and energize it with 12V?

Some people have told me to get rid of the VRO and run premix, but the wife hates the idea of doing that.

Thoughts, dear readers?

 

[Fuzzytbay]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

The pump would not be my first concern. I'd be looking in the cylinders, and trying to find out if they are scored. Second I would wonder why the low oil alarm either didn't work, or was ignored on the lake. As for the pump, just replace it. When in doubt with oil pumps, be them for cars boats, etc replacement is the answer, the last thing you need to have happen, is it to fail a second time, with or with out oil, in the resovoure. Personally I'd go to premix, safe and simple.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

You will be getting strong support for both unhooking the VRO or leaving it intact. The decision will be yours to make alone. (Let the wife feel like she has input though or you'll be sleeping on the couch ) Be sure to compression test before anything to determine if any damage was done.

Here is some reading for you:

"http://www.boatpartstore.com/tips.asp"


"http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html"

ALso check out the FAQ on this forum for more advice and reading.

Good luck.

 

[beniop]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

Yes, I know the VRO debate is polarized. I've seen the continuouswave.com VRO page - and it is convincing.

The premix method though is dead-sure and it appeals to me.

Are there any tests y'all would perform besides a compression test (I am glad I bought a testing kit!)?

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

The pump is driven by crankcase vacuum, wires are solely for alarms (which either weren't working or ignored).

Knocking sounds are usually bad when there's no oil. I would start by checking compression, then running if that's OK. If the knock is still present, it's probably bearings or some other serious metal problem.

 

[njrextreme]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

"When I listened to the engine and heard the knocking sound coming from the motor"

Sorry to say, but that knocking sounds like engine failure for sure. Bad bearing or broken piston.

 

[beniop]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

The knocking thankfully disappeared once there was oil, though my joy @ that was tempered by the no oil flow alarm that came a few seconds later. From what I've read since this happened though I should probably get a new oil filter and flush the oil system - i never checked or replaced the oil when I bought the boat, and there may have been some condensation or funk in the bottom of the tank.

The hard way seems to be my mode of learning.

 

[njrextreme]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

Pre mix is the way to go. I learned a expensive lesson on that. My oiler started to over pump and the alarm never came on. Knocking started and my motor was fried. Glad to hear your noise cleared up, but run it on the muffs or a tank for a while and make sure its good to go.

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

There are several tests for the OMS pump, in the OEM Service Manual. However, the first test is compression, and if that is good, you need to investigate the knocking sounds.

BTW - The OMS systems is very good and reliable. If the compression and bearings are serviceable, I would mix up some premix in a remote tank, and run the OMS Tests, to determine if the pump is still good. A new pump is fairly expensive.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

The knocking thankfully disappeared once there was oil, though my joy @ that was tempered by the no oil flow alarm that came a few seconds later. From what I've read since this happened though I should probably get a new oil filter and flush the oil system - i never checked or replaced the oil when I bought the boat, and there may have been some condensation or funk in the bottom of the tank.

The hard way seems to be my mode of learning.

outboard knocking sounds dont fix themselves...you damaged the motor..

how much, is the crap shoot game you are playing now.

but best of luck


bob

 

[d.boat]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

...The premix method though is dead-sure ...

People always say that. But really, is it? Believe me, people make mistakes and omissions premixing all the time. I don't believe it's any more dead sure than remembering to put oil in the tank, or check it/top it off every time you put gas in the tank (which someone obviously forgot to do for a few consecutive fill-ups in the case of your engine). To me, an empty or low tank is much more obvious in needing oil than premixed gas in a tank, especially for those who are more casual users (for me that would be my spouse, kids, friends who use the boat, etc.)

 

[jtexas]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

People always say that. But really, is it? Believe me, people make mistakes and omissions premixing all the time. I don't believe it's any more dead sure than remembering to put oil in the tank, or check it/top it off every time you put gas in the tank (which someone obviously forgot to do for a few consecutive fill-ups in the case of your engine). To me, an empty or low tank is much more obvious in needing oil than premixed gas in a tank, especially for those who are more casual users (for me that would be my spouse, kids, friends who use the boat, etc.)

Ever add 2 gallons to tank #1 and 5 gallons to tank #2, forget which is which, therefore faced with the choice of draining and starting over, or oiling both tanks for 5 gallons?

Even worse is the nagging thought that being confident you *do* know which is which, what if you're wrong?

 

[beniop]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

RE knocking sounds not fixing themselves -

There was a definite knocking sound, not much, about 4x per second at idle. Once there was oil, it was gone, or at least is gone to my ear, which is not too bad.

Thoughts on that?

 

[Al-53]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

I bought 2 of the diesel fuel jugs....they are Yellow...and just used for the boat...so I know what the mix is in them always.....

Al

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

As I suggested, check compression. Metal damage doesn't self cure.

 

[d.boat]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

Ever add 2 gallons to tank #1 and 5 gallons to tank #2, forget which is which, therefore faced with the choice of draining and starting over, or oiling both tanks for 5 gallons?

Even worse is the nagging thought that being confident you *do* know which is which, what if you're wrong?

Oh yes. Except w/ my built in tanks, it's more like an odd number like 21 in one and 8 in another, not only calculating (no big deal) but remembering. A very dilute mix of oil and gas still looks colored, so that doesn't help either. I'll take a maintained oiling system over my brain any day.

 

[Fed]

Re: Wait, the motor needs oil???

Did you 'prime' it with the oil line disconnected at the VRO pump until clear oil came out? The OEM Manual has very specific steps shown to get a dry system up & running. Out of interest I just checked & discovered the oil should be primed before priming the fuel system, if the fuel system is primed first then the oil system must be primed with the engine idling.

All this should be done with premix gas in the tank until oil usage is verified.