4 strokes versus 2 strokes

merc16

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Messages
92
hey guys,<br /><br />i would like to hear everybodys input on the pros and cons of two strokes and fourstrokes.<br />im going to buy a new outboard soon and id like too hear everybodys opinions, thoughts, knowlege on each type of engine.
 

NOSLEEP

Commander
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
2,442
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

Theres lready been some realy good threads on just<br />this topic. Do a search and you will find lots of reading material.
 

harkm

Recruit
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

Ok, there have been lengthy discussions about 2 vs. 4 strokes but it would be nice to get another one going. I, personally, would like a new 200hp honda 4 stroke instead of my 200 evinrude 2 stoke which is on my boat now. I would like the 4 stroke for all the obvious reasons...quieter, more reliable, better on gas.<br /><br />I discussed my 4 stroke intentions with a reputable marine mechanic and he said the 4 strokes are WAY underpowered. Is this true? Is he just hanging on to the 2 strokes emotionally because he understands them better? Or is he right about the 4 stroke's lack of power? Any help is appreciated.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,752
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

Torque and hp curves are different for every engine, and they are different between 2 stroke and 4 stroke.<br /><br />It really shouldn't matter too much, unless you under power your boat, and it is a bear to get on plane.<br /><br />Lots of archived topics on this very question.
 

harkm

Recruit
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

roscoe, so you are saying is that there is little difference in real world power between a 200 four stroke and a 200 2 stroke? Is this first hand knowledge or is this something you heard? Anybody out there who has owned both? Any help is appreciated.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

This myth persists that a 4 stroke HP does not equal a 2 stroke HP. That would defy the laws of physics. It is nonsense.<br /><br />EFI 4 stroke engines can match the torque curves of DFI 2 strokes of similar displacement. Neither 2 nor 4 stroke carbed engines can do that. The computer makes the difference.<br /><br />Differences in optimizing rigging, propping, trim and boat balance will have much more effect on hole shot and WOT than any differences between an EFI 4 stroke and a DFI 2 stroke of the same HP rating and similar displacement.<br /><br />The same would be true comparing carbed 4 and 2 strokes of the same HP rating.<br /><br />In either 2 or 4 stroke, bigger displacement offers higher torque at low to mid rpm.<br /><br />There, that should be good for a bazillion or so "YABUT!s" :D
 

Bco128

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
220
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

yabut yabut yabut.well gotta start somewhere if were gonna get a bazillion of them. :p i've never owned a 4 stroke outboard.however the general understanding i have been getting from dealers and such is that they are cleaner but are less effecient as far as fuel consumption as the same hp in a 2 stroke and also that they are less effecient in the hp to weight ratio. personally i dont have a clue havent owned one or even seen one in action all i know is hearsay really so dont take it to the bank or it might bounce on you.personally though im not worried about the fuel consumption but cleaner would be nice.not willing to add weight though.back end is a bit on the heavy side as it is.
 

zzzzz

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jan 13, 2003
Messages
1,094
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

everything I've heard indicates as much as 25 percent less fuel consumption for the 4 stroke :cool:
 

seahorse5

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
4,698
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

As a rule of thumb, a 2 stroke injected outboard will out accelerate a 4 stroke. Horsepower is horsepower, so equall power outputs will have a close top speed.<br /><br />The Evinrude 200-225-250 hp FICHTS for '03 and '02 emit fewer emissions than the Yamaha injected 4 stroke 200-225. In the industry standard ICOMIA tests, they also get better overall fuel milage than the 4 strokes.
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

True Story:<br />When I was shopping for my new boat/motor a few years back, I talked to a local dealer of many years. I had wanted to get a 90 Ficht as my 1968 Evinrude proved to be bulletproof and I felt OMC deserved my loyalty. This dealer sold only Mercs and Yamahas though. He didn't want to start selling 4-strokes but he told me he had no choice if he wanted to stay competitive. He told about how underpowered and gutless they were not to mention brutally heavy.<br />Well, I ended up buying a 4-stroke Honda (at a different marina). I was just about to lay the money out to rig the boat with the OMC when some stranger pulls in with the a Ficht and we start talking. He bought that motor a few months earlier and this was it's third trip back to the marina with a blown powerhead (30 hrs total). I went back inside and compared the specs between the two motors ( I wasn't real apprehensive about getting the Honda - their cars have served me well and after all, they are the world's largest producer of internal combustion engines). When I learned that the Honda was only a few pounds heavier than the Ficht - albeit both sustantially heavier than a regular 2-stroke(but who's gonna buy them anymore) - I said to the dealer 'gimme the Honda'; it was even less money. True, some 4-strokes are heavier but some are actually lighter. Take a look at the Honda 20 and the Honda 50 - both the lightest on the market. The Suzuki 140 is also an impressive little motor). The thing is, fours look big and that's deceiving. ALthough, it does add to one's sense of verility once on the water.<br /><br />I'll never go back to a 2-stroke after now owning the Honda.<br /><br />Anyway, a few months ago I went back to that local dealer. I noticed how most of his stock was now 4-stroke Yamaha's. We started chatting and I asked him what he though about 4-strokes now. Well, had his opinion changed! And he insisted it wasn't just sales talk. He too had an old 90hp on one of his boats that he replaced with a 90 Merc 4-stroke - maybe it was a yammie, i don't recall. Anyway, he sure was impressed with how it performed. He claimed that despite their weight, (guess he hasn't really looked at specs that closely yet) four strokes were especially impressive under load. He stated 'put two identical boat side by side, one with a 2 stroke and the other with a four and load the boats up full, you MIGHT see the 2-stroke gain a boat length or so in the first hundred yards but the four with fly by shortly thereafter. I told him about how I had heard from all sources that 2-strokes can't be beat for acceleration to which he replied 'bull****'. He said, 'you always have a few extra hundred rpm on a four to play with so just step down the prop pitch a notch and your neck in neck.<br /> <br />(I know what he means to. My boat came with a 19" pitch prop. It topped out at 5400 rpm(which happens to be peak HP on my engine)so it is the prop I use on a normal basis. However, I also have a 17" and 15" prop. My motor's full throttle range is 5000-6000 and redline is 6500. The 15" tops out at 6100 (at that rpm by the way, four strokes ARE NOT any quieter)and even has a couple of mph's over the 19". By most methods of determining prop size for your boat, the 15" is still a proper selection for my rig - barely. I swap back and forth betweeen the 17" and 19" depending on what I am using the boat for though. But I'll tell you, the first time I put the hammer down with that 15" on the back, I just about broke my neck! Boat planes in half a length even under heavy loads.)<br /><br />Needless to say I was rather surprised to hear and 'old' diehard mariner change his mind from something he was so used, but he did. Gotta remember, it's just opinion though. If you look at the cold hard facts, you'll find there a very few that are in fact carved in stone, save one: I haven't heard of one person who has said they wished they HADN"T bought a four - and that includes me.
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

Horsepower is horsepower, but torque, powerband, operating range, economy, price, and weight are many different things. The 4 strokes are coming down a bit in weight, but the 2 strokes are still lighter. The 2 strokes are getting cleaner and more efficient, so the gap is being closed on that front as well. In the end, your choice may end up coming down the price. They are all so damned expensive it is no wonder why more people have old motors than new. Hell, my motor is a 1970 125 horse Merc, and it runs great. Does it get worse economy than a new motor? you bet, but you will NEVER see a return on that better economy when you have to spend $17,000 for the motor. Its all about the big picture. What is the point of having better fuel economy if you have to spend a third more for the motor to get that economy. It does not make financial sense at all, but people get suckered in all the time. I say get the motor that makes the best power, at the cheapest price, and don't worry about how the motor makes that power.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,752
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

yabut yabut yabut yabut yabut yabut yabut yabut yabut<br />No Mike, I understand that hp is hp. <br />But if you compare the hp and torques curves, they are all different. They hit higher levels and peaks at different points. <br />Most of this is probably by design. Why make an engine just like the next guy. Every company want to build a better mousetrap. These differences may produce more low end grunt, or get you to higher rpm faster, or may be to protect the longevity of the engine itself.<br /><br />You have to concider the boat it will be on, and how you are going to use it most of the time.
 

what200

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 12, 2001
Messages
162
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

EFI 4 stroke engines can match the torque curves of DFI 2 strokes of similar displacement. Neither 2 nor 4 stroke carbed engines can do that. The computer makes the difference.
JB - I dunno bout that. There are some pretty strong carb motors running around out there. A stock merc 2.5 hipo carb motor is 245 HP for example. Carb motors can make close to same ultimate HP but are harder to tune for midrange and don't get the same milage.<br /><br />4 strokes make wonderful pontoon or cruising motors, but they can't touch 2 stroke performance on a boat. I'll change my mind when I see a under 400 lbs 4 stroke that makes 300 horsepowers (with low end torque too).<br /><br />Don't think I'll be seeing any 4 strokes doin this anytime soon:<br /> <br /> http://www.byuboyz.com/mike/sjc friday/wing2.MPG
 

Skinnywater

Commander
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
2,065
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

Yabut, a 2 stroke can outrun a 4 stroke in the 50 yard dash! :p
 

P.V.

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 14, 2002
Messages
452
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

The question I have for ANYONE on this board is this. Does anyone actually know of ANYONE with a four stroke that DOESN'T run as advertised??? Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Merc do not represent their four strokes as an "outperformer" in relation to a traditional 2-stroke/DFI engine, however, but they do say that they will be extremely quiet, sip fuel and will (like the energizer bunny) keep going on and on and on!! What more could you ask for?? One of my outboard reps has for the last few years told me how his "new generation" DFI engines "kick butt" in relation to "those slow,heavy four strokes that you like". I laugh and tell him that those people who want high performance will ask for his motors, maybe, and those people who aren't concern'd so much with performance but want reliability, seem to be very happy, thank you very much, with the four strokes I've sold them.( It appears that these people return to my store 'cause they want to rather than they HAVE to!!!!!)Anyway,this rep has now seen the light. He ran their new V-6 four stroke model recently and can't believe "how nice and powerfull it is!!" Welcome to my world!
 

Bco128

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
220
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

PV <br />i can tell you what more we could ask for. how about one most of us who dont make 85 grand a year can afford..huh?as i had stated in my other post up there, i have no experience with them, but if i can buy an old 2 stroke for less than half the price of the think its made of gold tags dealers put on them then i say let them buy the 4 stroke ill buy the 2 stroke that they have replaced and that is fact.why would i spend that much money on a boat motor when the same amout will buy a new car or greatly help send my kids through college?so they can spell better than i do...lol in my opinion the performance nor the cleanness or any of the other factors mentioned justify the price.and i doubt that the additional performance is really all that nessisary.ok im gonna stop there i think im turning this post away from its origional topic and may start an argument.
 

harkm

Recruit
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

Yes, the problem is that you can't buy any used four strokes. However, if you are comparing apples to apples. Comparing a new 4 stroke vs. a new fuel injected 2 stroke the difference in price isn't huge. The gap in price difference will likley be made up in servicing the 2 stroke. <br /><br />Yesterday, I took out my 200hp Evinrude and it ran great. But, I have to replace the vro pump, water pump, and whatever else every year just to keep it running well. Also, I hated shouting to my wife anytime I wanted to communicate! Give me the 4 stroke.
 

bossee

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
727
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

JasonJ wrote:<br />"What is the point of having better fuel economy if you have to spend a third more for the motor to get that economy."<br /><br />One point of having better fuel economy is that you pollute the water less. I run in a lake and maybe it is little more important there to start to use cleaner and more fuel efficient outboards compared to those that use them in the sea/ocean.<br />To have a clean hull is also a big fuel saver.<br /><br />Anyway, I had a 2-stroke before and use 4-stroke now and I will not go back to 2-stroke in the near future, but the new tecnology like HPDI, FICHT etc for 2-strokes is a step in right direction.<br /><br />I think it will maybe be better as times goes and older 2-strokes get phased out and second hand 4-strokes get more common and affordable on second hand market.<br /><br />/Bo
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

I think most of us agree that having fuel economy and cleam emissions is a good thing. I live and boat on a large lake, and yes I don't really care much for the smoke and the polution my old two stroke puts out, but I am hobbled by my own income. I do like the new 4 strokes, they are just too cost prohibitive. I had an old Homelite 55 4stroke from the sixites, and it ran great, no smoke, fuel lasted forever, all the good stuff, but 55 horsepower wasn't cutting it. <br /><br />Bo points out that poluting less is an incentive to spend 1/3rd more for a 4 stroke, but again, a lot of us just can't afford one. Yeah, the market will eventually bear more used units, but the prices will stay relatively high for them. If they want everyone in a four stroke, they need to price more competatively, but why should they? With more and more lakes banning 2 strokes and the emmisions restrictions going up, tey can charge whatever they want, and if we want to go boating, we take it in the shorts. To be honest, it is cheaper to just get an inboard boat, which is what I'll do before I spend one red cent on those overpriced 4 stroke outboards.
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: 4 strokes versus 2 strokes

JasonJ wrote:<br />"What is the point of having better fuel economy if you have to spend a third more for the motor to get that economy."<br /><br />....I do like the new 4 strokes, they are just too cost prohibitiv....<br />Yeah, the market will eventually bear more used units, but the prices will stay relatively high for them....<br /><br />For me, the reduction in noise IS enough to justify the price; but that preference. I agree that they are high cost, but no more than DFI 2's, either or, they are both a vast improvement on any front over the old two strokes. But you contradicted your own point: whatever money you sink into them, you make back on their higher resale value. Like somebody already stated, a used four is hard to find.
 
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