Driving lights questions

[dingbat]

Around here, shining a light on someone in open water will get you shot at....

Locally, most use a special round "light" that allows you to see 10-12 miles around you without compromising others vision. It lights up a field of crab pots buoys from 1/4 mile away no problem

 

[Scott Danforth]

Generally, dock lights are to be used "within 100 feet of your dock" and not while under way

This is Code of Federal Regulation - 33 CFR 83 - http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title33/33cfr83_main_02.tpl

specifically [h=2]?83.23 Power-driven vessels underway (Rule 23).[/h] (a) A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit:
(i) A masthead light forward;
(ii) A second masthead light abaft of and higher than the forward one; except that a vessel of less than 50 meters in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such light but may do so;
(iii) Sidelights; and
(iv) A sternlight.
(b) An air-cushion vessel when operating in the non-displacement mode shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit an all-round flashing yellow light where it can best be seen.
(c) A WIG craft only when taking off, landing and in flight near the surface shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit a high intensity all-round flashing red light.
(d) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may, in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights.
(e) A power-driven vessel when operating on the Great Lakes may carry an all-round white light in lieu of the second masthead light and sternlight prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule. The light shall be carried in the position of the second masthead light and be visible at the same minimum range.
Since most of our boats are under 12 meters, the two side lights (red and green) and the all-around light are what is required. No more, no less

Here is a simplified version published by the US coast guard - http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/workflow_staging/Publications/420.PDF


Here are a few other states

http://fishandboat.com/boatcrs/03boathandbook/chap2_09_night.htm
http://static.stateparks.utah.gov/docs/BoatingHighlights.pdf
http://www.garlandcountysheriff.com/patrol/marine_patrol.html
http://myfwc.com/boating/regulations/#nogo

 

[rickryder]

NJ regs say nothing about docking/headlights.....just the necessary nav lights

 

[alldodge]

My old cutter

 

[rickryder]

Generally, dock lights are to be used "within 100 feet of your dock" and not while under way

This is Code of Federal Regulation - 33 CFR 83 - http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title33/33cfr83_main_02.tpl

specifically [h=2]?83.23 Power-driven vessels underway (Rule 23).[/h] (a) A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit:
(i) A masthead light forward;
(ii) A second masthead light abaft of and higher than the forward one; except that a vessel of less than 50 meters in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such light but may do so;
(iii) Sidelights; and
(iv) A sternlight.
(b) An air-cushion vessel when operating in the non-displacement mode shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit an all-round flashing yellow light where it can best be seen.
(c) A WIG craft only when taking off, landing and in flight near the surface shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit a high intensity all-round flashing red light.
(d) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may, in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights.
(e) A power-driven vessel when operating on the Great Lakes may carry an all-round white light in lieu of the second masthead light and sternlight prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule. The light shall be carried in the position of the second masthead light and be visible at the same minimum range.
Since most of our boats are under 12 meters, the two side lights (red and green) and the all-around light are what is required. No more, no less

Here is a simplified version published by the US coast guard - http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/workflow_staging/Publications/420.PDF


Here are a few other states

http://fishandboat.com/boatcrs/03boathandbook/chap2_09_night.htm
http://static.stateparks.utah.gov/docs/BoatingHighlights.pdf
http://www.garlandcountysheriff.com/patrol/marine_patrol.html
http://myfwc.com/boating/regulations/#nogo

Still can't find where it states you can't have headlights......

 

[bruceb58]

Still can't find where it states you can't have headlights......

It's pretty easy. Just open up the documents and do a search for docking lights.

On Lake Tahoe, you hear dozens of boats getting hailed by the Sheriff on 4th July evening to turn off their docking lights as they head home. In addition, many have nav lights on when they are anchored or anchor lights on when they are drifting.

Seems like their are a lot of people that need to take a coast guard aux safe boating course:
http://bdept.cgaux.org/wp/?page_id=1408

The other lighting problem that occurred with only a few boaters was they had their ?docking? lights on while at anchor and even underway. These bright, headlight- type lights, which should only be used when docking, tend to blind all approaching boaters. It?s definitely a no- no!

 

[bilge rat jim]

Thanks for the information AllDodge about the 300 lumens minimum. I was leaning heavy toward the LED type because of the low power draw. If anyone has a specific light to recommend and wants to tell me why you like it, that would be a help. I am putting it on a pontoon boat and think just under the front deck would be good because of the limited glare. All ideas are appreciated.

Tom

Now that all the "legal" dust has settled :sleeping: I would like to make a recommendation for night lighting. I have a dual purpose off-road LED light bar mounted low on the bow of my fishing boat. This little 20" light bar has both spot (30 degree) and flood (75 degree) beams that can be switched to operate independently or together. I have aimed the light low, so that the spot illuminates only about 30M ahead, and the flood function only lights up a semi-circle of about a 10M radius. Even with both the spot and flood lights activated my navigation lights are still clearly visible and the light does does not affect the vision of any oncoming boater.

 

[rickryder]

Ok so I just read it again..... from NJ regs

3
Operator?s Responsibilities
LIGHTS ARE REQUIRED ON BOATS BETWEEN
SUNSET AND SUNRISE AND AT ALL TIMES OF
RESTRICTED VISIBILITY.
POWER-DRIVEN VESSELS
See Inside Front Cover Figures 1 Through 4
International
1. A power-driven vessel less than 20 meters (65?7?), shall
exhibit navigation lights as shown in either Figure 1 or
2. If you choose Figure 1, the aft masthead light must
be higher than the forward one. If Figure 2 is selected,
a vessel less than 12 meters (39?4?), the masthead light
must be 1 meter (3?3?) higher than the colored lights. If
the vessel is 12 meters (39?4?) or more in length and less
than 20 meters (65?7?), the masthead light must be 2.5
meters (8?2?) higher than the gunwale.
2. A power-driven vessel less than 7 meters (22?10?) in
length and whose maximum speed cannot exceed 7 knots
may, in lieu of the lights prescribed above, exhibit an allaround
white light. Such vessel shall, if practicable, also
exhibit side lights.
Inland
1. A power-driven vessel, when the construction was
started before December 25, 1981, less than 20 meters
(65?7?) shall exhibit navigation lights as displayed in
either Figures 1, 2 or 3.
272. A power-driven vessel, when the construction was started
after December 24, 1981, 12 meters(39?4?) or more
in length and less than 20 meters(65?7?) shall exhibit
navigation lights as displayed in either Figure 1 or 2.
3. A power-driven vessel, when the construction was started
after December 24, 1981, less than 12 meters(39?4?)
may exhibit those lights shown in Figures 1, 2 or 3.
SAILING VESSELS & VESSELS UNDER OARS
See Inside Front Cover Figures 5 Through 8
NOTE: A SAIL VESSEL UNDER MACHINE POWER
AND SAILS IS CONSIDERED A POWER-DRIVEN VESSEL
International
1. A sailing vessel of less than 12 meters (39?4?) in length
shall exhibit navigation lights shown in either Figures 5,
6 or 7.
2. A sailing vessel of 12 meters (39?4?) or more in length
shall exhibit navigation lights shown in either Figure 5
or 6.
3. A sailing vessel of less than 7 meters (22?10?) in length
shall, if practicable, exhibit those lights prescribed for
sailing vessels less than 12 meters (39?4?), but if it does
not, it shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted
lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in
suffi cient time to prevent collision. (See Figure 8).
4. A vessel under oars may display those lights prescribed
for sailing vessels, but if it does not, it shall have ready
at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a
white light which shall be exhibited in suffi cient time to
prevent collision. (See Figure 8).
28Inland
1. A sailing vessel under sail alone, shall exhibit navigation
lights as displayed in either Figures 5, 6 or 7.
2. A sailing vessel of less than 7 meters (22?10?) shall, if
practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in number one
of this section, but if it does not, it shall have ready at
hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white
light which shall be exhibited in suffi cient time to prevent
collision. (See Figure 8).
3. A vessel under oars may exhibit the lights prescribed in
this section for sailing vessels, but if it does not, it shall
have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern
showing a white light which shall be exhibited in suf-
fi cient time to prevent collision. (See Figure 8).
LIGHTS USED WHEN ANCHORED
International
Power-driven vessels and sailing vessels less than 20 meters
in length at anchor must display anchor lights. Vessels less
than 7 meters in length shall not be required to display anchor
lights unless anchored in or near a narrow channel, fairway
or anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate.
An anchor light is a white light exhibited forward, visible
for 2 miles and displayed where it can best be seen for 360
degrees.
Inland
Power-driven vessels and sailing vessels less than 20 meters
in length at anchor must display anchor lights. Vessels
less than 7 meters in length shall not be required to display
anchor lights unless anchored in or near a narrow channel,
fairway or anchorage, or where other vessels normally
29navigate. An anchor light is a white light exhibited forward,
visible for 2 miles and displayed where it can best be seen
for 360 degrees. An anchor light is displayed where it can
best be seen for 360 degrees. A vessel less than 20 meters
in inland waters when at anchor in a special anchorage area
designated by the Secretary of Transportation, shall not be
required to exhibit an anchor light.
NOTE: See inside front cover for a range and degree of visibility
of lights.

I'm not trying to be an a$$ but I see no mention of docking lights.....

 

[alldodge]

opcorn:

 

[tumblebug1949]

Man o man, lots and lots of stuff but only three that I think came close to answering my question.

AllDodge gave me his opinion about LED being the best with a minimum of a 300 lumen output. Hawker sent a website of the lights he uses and the reviews are 5 star all the way across. Then, Bilge rat describe his light bar setup with both spot lights and flood lights. Thank to all three of you for reading my question and taking the time to answer it.

I did not ask if I can use lights or what the rules are because I have been boating and fishing on big water and little water for years and probably know the rules better than most. I spend at least 30 entire nights on the water fishing and use red LED lights as a head lamp to protect my night vision. I have a white LED lights in the headlamp to help net and land a fish. These are used only as necessary so are only on momentarily. I have been on the Ohio River at night and notice that the commercial barges have no problem turning the 10 million candle power spot lights on and have been the center of that beam on several occasions.

I was raised to be respectful of others and expect others to do the same. To me that is the problem with most people today. They don't respect anything and there kids turn out to think respect is supposed to be a one way event. With that said, I did not ask what the rules were. I know the rules and only ask if anyone could tell me about a good light for use on my boats. If you don't want to seed me with lights on my boat then you should probably not go out on the water at night.

I guess the confusion that cause folks to sidestep the question was the word driving light. That was my flat but even that did not change the question.

Thanks to those that provided answers to my question.

Tom

 

[UncleWillie]

Based on the Tug with the barge....
If you want to see the water around the boat at night, a 1000 watt, White all round masthead light would seem to be legal.
It need to be visible for 2 miles but nothing states that it can't be visible for 20 miles.

 

[MH Hawker]

Here is a bit more info on the LEDS i added. The LED lights I added do a lot better than the 55 watt halogens i started out with. The halogens are a direct beam fog light style. The LED ones are a lot more defused and cover a lot border area and light up buoys and markers very well. I have them set in a X pattern to light up any snags or dead heads. I am pleased with the results and it made night fishing easer. My speeds is at idle and i am on a 9.9 lake and 99.9 percent of the time i am the only boat out so not breaking down is nice. and 110 watts vs 36 watts of power draw is also nice a lot less battery draw down.

 

[gm280]

I have to admit I'm been watching this thread and reading all the comments and presently, I am more confused then anything else. I read where you can't run any type lights but the usual navigation lights front and rear. Then somebody challenges that with some law, and then that gets challenged with another person's law and so on. So right now I haven't got any idea if using a hand held light to see what is around you and the shore line is legal, safe or even welcomed! I can't understand how anybody can navigate on any body of water without the ability to see what could be right in front of you or lots of times the actual shore line. I've been there and done that and it is very unsafe in my opinion without some type light to be able to see anything. Granted, I don't go out at night much anymore, but still, I can't believe that you can't use something to help you see. Case in point, a person could have fallen out of his boat and the boat travel on for a good ways and you are coming along at any speed but can't actually see him in the water until you're driving over him. Sure doesn't sound like a viable safe way to navigate to me... But then they didn't ask me my opinion before making such laws either. One would think that safety should come into play somewhere.

 

[tumblebug1949]

gm280, the true answer is pretty much just use common sense. Most written regulations pertain to navigation lights and making sure they can be seen at a specific distance. There is no max distant allowed but rather only a minimum distance. They do not write laws about using lights to fish with but they do make bright lights that shine directly into the water to attract small fish which in turn will attract larger fish. This has been used for crappie fishing for years and a common light is an automotive high beam headlight.. Anyone that says you can not use a spot light or flood light to maneuver safely on the water at night has obviously never been on a large body of unfamiliar water at night. The one that said to "just idle along in the dark so when you run into something, you won't do much damage" can do that if he wants but that does not pass the common sense test with me. The only rules that I know of are that you can not leave bright lights on that would make it difficult for others to see your required navigation lights. It also would not be permitted to have lights on that would blind or interfere with the vision of another boater. River barges use very high powered spotlights to assist them in navigating and a person in a 10 foot flat bottom boat can do the same thing. Just use common sense. You just have to pay attention to what the regulations were written for. That was so others can see you and that you don't interfere with them being able to do that. The law does not care if your bright lights keep the fish awake at night or keep the bats from catching bugs. The regulations are just to make it possible for others to see your vessel and know what you are doing so two boats can avoid running into each other. Anyone that followed these rule would never have a problem with DNR.

As far as a group of boats go, I used to go up the Potomac River and anchor just off shore behind the Lincoln Memorial to watch the 4th of July fireworks on the Mall in Washington DC. There would be a hundred or more boats anchored there that night. In a case like that it would be a real problem if each boat turned on bright lights so we all just eased away with just our navigation lights on until we got separated from the pack. Then we used some lights on occasion to maneuver safely. Nothing wrong or against regulations there at all.

Thanks again to those that replied to my question.
Tom

 

[Scott Danforth]

do your own research. https://www.google.com/search?q=fed...federal+regulation+vessel+with+docking+lights

each state specifically has a line in their regulations on docking lights. Each state clearly states that they are to be used only for docking. These state regulations support the federal regulation 33 CFR 83

Here are just a few
Ohio "Docking lights shall not be used or displayed while a vessel is underway" http://www.dnr.state.md.us/boating/pdfs/recreationvessels.pdf
Missouri "during suchuch time no other lights, continuous spotlights or docking lights, or other" http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/30600001001.HTML
Maryland "Docking lights shall not be used or displayed while a vessel is underway" http://www.dnr.state.md.us/boating/pdfs/recreationvessels.pdf
Wisconsin "No other lights (including docking lights) may be used" http://dnr.wi.gov/files/PDF/pubs/LE/LE0301.pdf
Pennsylvania "prohibited to operate a boat using docking lights while underway, except when docking" http://fishandboat.com/boatrecap.pdf
Minnesota "Docking lights on boats should only be used near docks" http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/boatwater/boatingguide.pdf
Utah "The display of spotlights, docking lights or other non-navigational lights is limited to intermittent use to approach a dock" http://static.stateparks.utah.gov/docs/BoatingHighlights.pdf

the requirements for visibility of lights are not a minimum where the ability to see a light for 20 miles is a goal. the lights are intended to be bright enough to be spotted up to 2 miles (vessels under 12 meters) yet low enough intensity not to ruin night vision. The laws are written about the requirements of navigation of water ways. the lighting section specifically has taken into consideration everything from reflection, to the ability of the human eyeball to adjust to changes in light intensity. The federal regulation mirrors the requirement for all other countries as well. this is not a local set of waterway rules, it is international, developed for global harmonization. The regulations come from the International Regulations for preventing collisions at sea, published by the International Maritime Organization. These regulations started back in the 1800's and are not new. Abraham Lincoln signed the regulations into US law in 1864

While I agree, it would be nice to once in a while see floating debris, etc. the truth is the reflection alone on the water destroys your night vision, along with anyone elses on the water, and you can see better at hight on the water without lights

I have witnessed first hand, using a spot light at night in the ICW or other open waterways down here in Florida will soon have those wonderful blue flashing lights pulling up on you.

Do I have a spot-light on board - yes. I use it occasionally when aproaching the doc, especially going under the bridge to make sure I am in the channel marked by the small reflectors (because vandals have repeatedly removed the reflevitve channel markers). Do I shine the light on anything else in the water, no

There are many articles on how to boat at night. Each states, know your water way, have appropriate GPS or Mapping insturmentation, appropriate depth instrumentation, go slow, and do not use spotlights

Here are a few.
http://www.boatingmag.com/how-to/navigating-night
http://www.safesea.com/boating_resources/seamanship/night_nav.html

 

[alldodge]

Wish I could be of more help Tom but have not used any of the lights which your looking for. Also sorry for getting off topic myself.

 

[bruceb58]

I'm not trying to be an ***** but I see no mention of docking lights.....

Also, no mention that you can't use blue flashing lights on your boat either...I probably wouldn't be doing that if I were you.

It's all a matter of common sense. One of the lakes I have a dock on has a night time speed limit of 5MPH. Reason for that is that they didn't, the people with no common sense would be driving around at 25MPH.

 

[tumblebug1949]

It sounds to me like it is all in the wording. Driving lights, docking lights, spot light, momentary light or hand held light. I do agree if you are out in a calm lake or in the ocean, you do not need to use additional light because there is nothing in the water to run into for the most part. And on most occasions, there is enough moon light to make your way along at idle so additional light is not needed. Come over to the Ohio River or the Mississippi River after a big rain and fish all night and tell me what you think. You will either give up fishing those waters or use a light when needed. The nice little maps giving you depth at 1 and 3 foot increments don't exist. You get a map that says the river turns right or left and that is all. If it is illegal to use lights at night on the water then someone need to shut down the US Barge industry because they use them all the time and we are governed by the same regulations. Their lights send a beam for a mile or more would make a blind man put his hands over his eyes. They use the spotlight to light up bridge pillars, other boats (like mine), shore markers and more. Of course that light may not be considered to be displayed when they are only on momentarily.

I can just see the court case now where the water police are charging a boater for using a light momentarily, that had no effect on others to see if he could safely proceed. Then the Officer is supposed to testify that he told the boater that he could not turn on a light to look at something. Like the guy said earlier, just go slow so if you run into something it won't do too much damage. Things floating in the ocean "float". Things floating in a lake "float" Things floating on a big fast moving river do more that float, they come at you and can be as large as an entire tree.

Like I said. Lakes and nice open ocens are great. Try a big river after a big rain when all the junk washes into it and do it on a cloudy dreary night and then tell me you did not use a light. I well refer to that person as a fool after that. Note I said that person, it is not my intent to offend anyone. I just want to operate my boats safely at night without interfering with anyone else.

Tom

 

[tumblebug1949]

Bruce, I was a federal law enforcement officer for 20 years and will tell you laws are written to regulate what you will not be permitted to do. Not what you are permitted to do. There is no law that says you can come out of your house in the morning but I would imagine you and other will.Can you tell me of a law that says what you are permitted to do, unless it is clarifying it because of something you are not permitted to do.

And as I said earlier, I am not asking permission to use a light, I am asking of the folks that is a light, which ones they prefer. You probably save a lot of money by not having a needless light on your boat. I would also wonder if you would make the statement that you have never turned on a light other than your navigation lights to look into the water when farther than 100 feet from the dock.

Tom

 

[bruceb58]

Yes, I use a spotlight when going into channels looking for channel buoys. I never drive my boat with it on. Like I said before...it's common sense.