Driving lights questions

[jhebert]

Commenting on my earlier reply regarding Bruce's pronouncement that "driving lights" were illegal and his failure to cite any rule:

Uh, didn't you just quote it?

I have no idea what rule Bruce had in mind when he pronounced the use of the "driving lights" to be illegal. Apparently you are better at mind reading than I am.

I didn't see spot lights, docking lights, driving lights or any of the like specified in the rule linked.

Yes. There is no mention of or definition of "driving lights" or docking lights" contained in RULE 20. The federal regulations do not define "driving lights" or "docking lights" for boats. As RULE 20 makes clear, you can illuminate the boat with any sort of light, as long as it does not cause a violation of RULE 20.

The many citations or extended cut-and-paste of the federal rules have not given much illumination to "driving lights" because in the federal rules there is no definition for such a lamp or the light it will show.

In one prior article a post referenced a "handbook" of a particular state's boating laws. In the handbook a definition was offered for "docking lights" and advice given about their use. The publication of a "handbook" is not an establishment of a law, unless there is some formal law or regulation that gives everything in the handbook the status of rule of law. If one wants to cite a "rule" or "law", they should cite the formal statute, not some handbook that is published on the subject.

In one prior article a post gave a narrative about a direct order from a Coast Guard officer to extinguish all lamps except navigation lamps in a particular navigation situation. In general a Coast Guard officer cannot create new rules or regulations on his own authority, but, in many situations it is better to comply with the order at the time and place and argue about its legality later. In the matter of proper display of lights, the Coast Guard is not a particularly good example of compliance--maybe not a "shining light." In an embarrassing collision between a Coast Guard boat and a recreational boat a few years ago in Florida, the Coast Guard boat was found to be improperly displaying navigation lights.

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/A...ts/MAR0205.pdf

 

[tumblebug1949]

Well there you go. I at no time said I was going to use my light like a headlight on a car but rather to identify a hazard, find a marker or maybe land a fish. So what was all that guff about not using a light when away from the dock.

AllDodge, have you got that popcorn eaten yet????:joyous:

Later
All
Tom

 

[alldodge]

I've eaten way to much, think I'm going to hurl

Need to go back to beer, it's safer

 

[jhebert]

Based on my own experience in navigating a small boat on a dark night and wishing to provide some forward illumination for the purpose of finding unlighted aids to navigation in a narrow channel, I recommend using a small hand-held flashlight carried by someone at the bow and directed only forward. Use a small flashlight like a two-cell AA battery MAGLITE. The focusing of the beam is very helpful. The small and tightly focused light will not create a bright penumbra around the lamp which can spoil the night vision of the helmsman. Small unlighted buoys usually have reflector tape on them, and when illuminated with even a little flashlight they will reflect back very brightly. The MAGLITE was much more effective than a big spotlight that was tried. The spotlight cast so much light around the boat that night vision was impaired.

 

[airshot]

Well there you go. I at no time said I was going to use my light like a headlight on a car but rather to identify a hazard, find a marker or maybe land a fish. So what was all that guff about not using a light when away from the dock.

AllDodge, have you got that popcorn eaten yet????:joyous:

Later
All
Tom

My apologies there tumblebug......when I saw "driving lights and spot lights" I was under the impression you were going to have them on continuously. I was only making a reference to the law so you would not experience any legal problems. I should have read more carefully..........

Airshot

 

[bruceb58]

Well there you go. I at no time said I was going to use my light like a headlight on a car but rather to identify a hazard, find a marker or maybe land a fish.

Sounds fine to me.

 

[tumblebug1949]

Not a problem airshot. It was only a discussion. I made the mistake of misusing the word driving light which caused a lot of the confusion. I am normally on my 21 foot pontoon boat and have a hand held light that has a flood light and a spot light capability. The only problem I have with it is I am usually by myself so I am at the helm. Because of that I get a lot go glare because of the 15 foot of boat deck the light is going over. My thoughts are to mount a fixed light up at the nose but under the deck so there will be no glare or at least it will be minimal. Using it momentarily should not hurt my night vision too badly and with no other boats up front will not harm anyone else.

Later
Tom

 

[MH Hawker]

That is the very reason i added my LEDs up and under the front deck,wont bother your night vision, i can flip them on for a moment to see a buoy or as it often happens some idiot anchored with no lights at all. I also have a 1.5 million cp spot light when needed. I often run into a fogs that will blind you unless you have some real powerful lights. Another thing that helps a lot is to focus them in a X pattern the right light is pointed to the left and the left is pointed to the right it eliminates a dead spot directly in front of the boat but you still get a decent sped all around.

 

[airshot]

Yep, that bright light reflecting across that deck will definitely cause some loss of night vision, I have a remote spot/flood light on the bow of my Islander and use it in short bursts to check for floating debris as well unless I get a good reflection from the moon on the water, then I can easily see what is floatin in front of me. Under your deck looks like a good pace for them, angled close to the water will not affect anyone elses vision either. I have seen a couple of what I believe to be under the influence individuals coming down the river after the fireworks show with what looks like aircraft landing lights, they were so bright they could not see the pretty blue flashing lights chasing them down.

 

[bruceb58]

Sorry about getting this whole thread off track from the get go, Was not my intention.

 

[tumblebug1949]

Hey Bruce, It was a good discussion and I think those that participated and those that just read the thread will benefit from it. And AllDodge got his popcorn

Later
Tom

 

[redneck joe]

gm280, The one that said to "just idle along in the dark so when you run into something, you won't do much damage" can do that if he wants but that does not pass the common sense test with me.
Tom

Worked for me last 40 years or so.

gm280,
Try a big river after a big rain when all the junk washes into it and do it on a cloudy dreary night and then tell me you did not use a light.

Using my common sense I would not be our in a night with these conditions.

 

[rickryder]

Yeah I didn't want to stir the pot and running dock lights or some form of headlights while underway is not a safe idea for others on the water....my comments were just to show how vague some laws can be.....that being said it was a good discussion for others to learn from

 

[dingbat]

Using my common sense I would not be our in a night with these conditions.

+1 common sense isn't so common.

For every piece of debris you can see there are 20 more you can't see. Logs floating a foot below the surface are responsible for more than a few outdrive repairs.

We had a 43' sport fisherman go down 4 years ago 3 miles out of the inlet despite the use of radar and FLIR. Hit a submerged shipping container that was adrift.

 

[tumblebug1949]

Thank you MH Hawker for the information you provided about the 18w LED flood lights you like and using the X pattern to get the best coverage. I went to the website you provided and checked the lights out closely and also noticed that there was a rectangular spot light version of this light also. The two lights are made of the same materials but the body shape is different. And the spot light version was slightly cheaper. I think because there are in essence the same light with the exception of the defuser lens on the flood light. Anyway, I have ordered two of the spotlight version and will be giving them a try. My trailer for my pontoon has the upright guide on rollers in-between the tubes so I thought a more compact light by height would be better. If I decide the flood light would be better, I will try adding a defuser lens and if that does not soot me, I will order the flood light version. They have very good reviews and seem to be well built. I will also order the flood light version for the rear work light on my farm tractor.

Again, thanks for your input and the pictures really helped.

Later
Tom

 

[ssobol]

One of the problems using lights while driving is that you will see things in the light pool nicely (perhaps), but everything else will be pitch black. Things outside the light pool will be invisible.

Depending on the size of your boat and the speed you want to cruise at, your "driving" lights may have to throw a decent distance in order to see things far enough away from you to take evasive action.

I'm sure that some towboats have lights on the pilothouse to keep an eye on the tow and not so much to see what's ahead in the water. Some of the tows are pretty big and long and I doubt you can see what's in the water in the front of the lead barge from the pilot house anyway. Any debris that is would worry a recreational boater is of no consequence to a towboat and anything that is, probably shows up on the radar.

Perhaps the ban on "driving" lights at night is in part to keep people from running at an unreasonable speed when it is dark.

 

[tumblebug1949]

Here we go again. The term driving lights is so misleading. I should have called them idle lights or maybe momentary idle lights. At night I never run faster than an idle. My main objective is to make sure I miss as many obstacles as possible that are being carried down the river by the current. You are right that the barges being pushed nor the tugboat need to worry much about what is floating down the river. But they do have a light that will reach it whether or not they can see anything at that distance. And they only use their bright lights once in a while.

 

[alldodge]

Tom, have a beer and relax. Once a thread starts going a stray there will be many more which don't read everything and just post. Some hardly read a thing and post. I'll admit in real long threads I have did a :facepalm: after reading a bit deeper. Just sit back and see how the next one comes in and says something. If anything else they are getting more post points

 

[tumblebug1949]

Not a problem airshot, We have just about beat this subject to death but I can't think of another topic to go with that would get this much participation. Maybe I should bring up the person that leaves their boat trailer at the bottom of the ramp, in the water so no one else can use the ramp. I have seen that on occasion. Makes me want to just go over and release their emergency brake and take the vehicle out of gear. Maybe instead of coming back to their obviously personal ramp, I can get their truck and trailer to come to them. :laugh:

 

[rickryder]

+1 on :deadhorse: