Boat started on its own, no key. Mercruiser 165 starter/solenoid/USER error

[H@ystack]

I just had my starter rebuilt. At first I tried the easy stuff, cleaning connections and checking to make sure battery is ok.

Well, it me a month to find someone and I didn't take pictures of the wires. So now I forgot how they go.

From what I recalled , there were 5 wwires. 4 large and 1 smaller yellow and red wire.

In all the diagrams i find there are only 3 large wires and one small.

Anyway, I put the 4 large on the larger hub on the solenoid and yellow and red on one of the smaller hubs. That's how I remembered. (and why I always take pictures)

First, the gauges were going nuts. Nav light not working, horn causing gauges to move, and a lot of inconsistency.

It would not turn over only click. I took the key out, put a charge on the battery, walked to the back and ssuddenly it tried turning with no key.

I only touched the starter, so it makes sense i wired something wrong.

Any thoughts?

 

[littlerayray]

Yeah you should taken pictures lol. no I can't help but someone will soon a picture would help though

 

[H@ystack]

Yeah you should taken pictures lol. no I can't help but someone will soon a picture would help though

haha! I always take pictures. Even for something simple like that. Because of THIS reason here. Something happens and it takes a month before you get the part back in.

I just can't quite figure out what it would be. There's not many options for these wires. I'm almost certain I have it right, but clearly I do not.

I'll snap a picture of the wires I have and toss it up here. Obviously, there's the battery wire and the alternator wire, but I have 4 total on the main hub. 3 red an orange. I'm assuming one of those reds needed to be elsewhere or the small yellow with red stripe wire needed to be somewhere else.

 

[H@ystack]

No Title

Hopefully this helps. 4 large wires on the main hub. And the yellow/red wire on what was labeled as the S, but maybe it wasn't the S? I'm not sure that would matter, but I'm merely guessing and learning as I go here.

 

[H@ystack]

After doing so much research on boat starters, and finding nothing before I posted this, I have since realized a starter is a starter. I just decided to research automotive starter issues like this. It appears my rebuilt starter may just be "stuck" or shorting across somewhere?

Does that seem to be the most reasonable explanation here? I've checked a few website for older cars, and this has come up quite a bit.

 

[Mrcleaningguys]

Don't quote me and don't change it until someone confirms it......
You may just have the yellow wires mixed up. The Yellow/red runs to the back of the alternator I believe(power). The other solid Yellow runs to the ignition switch, to engage the starter.
Once again, don't quote me, I have an open thread as well awaiting answers so I'm probably not the most reliable lol. Good luck.

 

[H@ystack]

Don't quote me and don't change it until someone confirms it......
You may just have the yellow wires mixed up. The Yellow/red runs to the back of the alternator I believe(power). The other solid Yellow runs to the ignition switch, to engage the starter.
Once again, don't quote me, I have an open thread as well awaiting answers so I'm probably not the most reliable lol. Good luck.

So, it's like Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder giving each other directions? Haha!

 

[oldboat1]

google: mercruiser 165 starter wiring. See multiple diagrams...

 

[Mrcleaningguys]

No Title

 

[H@ystack]

Thank you for the responses.

Ultimately, it was wired correctly. Which it should be. There's not many options to get wrong.

The solenoid ended up not being bad.
The ignition switch ended up not being bad.
Battery was fully charged (took it to test it hoping it was dead)

It was starting on its own because it appeared the relay was stuck. I put a meter on the ignition wire, and it always stayed hot with or without key. That would lead me to wanting to change or rewire the ignition. That was the plan.

I was on the phone with my dad, and he has been an electrician for 40 years and was giving me some tips. He eventually asked me to check the relay. I had no idea how to "check". So he kinda laughed and said at the power plant he works at, him and the other electricians do what's called a "calibrated tap". This involves hitting the relay with a screwdriver a few times.

After I did that, the ignition wire is now only hot when it should be. When the key is engaged.

It appears the relay was sticking.

I will be changing that relay to be safe.

I can't imagine it sticking again and constantly turning the starter over when I'm out on the water and can't get it to stop. The only way I was able to get it to stop this time was because I just happened to not yet tighten down my battery cable.

Just thought I'd post my results. I post these things and continue to work and do my research, so things changed frequently while I was working.

 

[oldboat1]

gotta love it. good post. ("calibrated tap" on the old Chevy solenoid when the starter won't kick in....)

 

[H@ystack]

gotta love it. good post. ("calibrated tap" on the old Chevy solenoid when the starter won't kick in....)

Please note, I did not post that the boat engine has yet to run. haha!!!

Although, I'm pretty sure that's just a quick fix now. At least the ignition isn't always "hot" anymore.

 

[oldboat1]

yup. different symptom, similar fix (small hammer under the consol). Sounds like you've got it narrowed down, and almost there.

 

[Mrcleaningguys]

Glad to hear it buddy. Glad you didn't take advice from a blind man now?

 

[H@ystack]

yup. different symptom, similar fix (small hammer under the consol). Sounds like you've got it narrowed down, and almost there.

Alright, so It seems the slave solenoid (I've been calling it a "relay". Same thing?) appears to be the problem. I'm only getting a click from the relay now. At least the ignition isn't always hot though.

The output side of the relay is now getting no charge coming out. I test the purple wire going it, and it gets hot when the key is turned. But the yellow red wire is not hot. This is the wire that feeds the starter solenoid.

It seems that that "relay" was stuck in the closed position and is now stuck in the open position? Although, it does click, so I don't know.

Does that seem like the culprit? I guess I'm confirming my suspicion. While I will be spinning my wheels anyway, confirming suspicion at least reduces a few spins of those wheels

Also, I can find the Sierra boat part number 18-5802. Are there any places I can go to find comparable parts in other brands? I'm trying to find it local, in case that's not the issue, and I'm having no luck.

 

[oldboat1]

Google for a wiring diagram (mercruiser 165 starter wiring). If you are talking about a physically hot wire, that's not good -- need to work from a wiring diagram. Can check out marine engine dot com and drill down to your model, can check for other parts mfg. if preferred.

 

[H@ystack]

Alright. Good news bad news. Need some help here.

Rebuilt starter is great. Turns quick. The new slave solenoid was definitely one of the issues. I just put in the new slave solenoid, and my meter readings were as they should be. Here's the new fun.

The boat started beautifully. It's been sitting a month and cranked after only a few seconds. But!!! When it cranked, there was a massive grinding noise coming from the starter/flywheel. I assume the starter is not disengaging? I'm not really sure what other issues that could be. The boat is running, but massive metal grinding sound.

 

[oldboat1]

shut her down, then, right? Need to confirm wiring first, I think, as that has been an issue. (Need more input here, and maybe a new thread under the merc forum.) It sounds like the bendix isn't kicking down (unlikely as the starter was just rebuilt), or incorrectly wired (best guess).

 

[Silvertip]

You may not have the starter bolted tightly or the wrong bolts were used to install it. The noise you hear is typically due to improper alignment of the Bendix with the flywheel. If the noise was not there before and is now, and the starter is the same (just rebuilt) did you perhaps loose a shim that was placed between the starter and the block. Shimming a starter isn't always necessary, but if it was shimmed before, it needs to be shimmed now. You can buy the shims at any auto store. It may also be that there is a missing tooth on the flywheel and the engine just happened to stop in that position. If the grinding is present whenever you kit the key, then lack of shimming is likely the cause, or perhaps the rebuilder installed the wrong Bendix..

 

[Fed]

If the bendix is staying engaged I bet it's a wiring problem, the solenoid on the starter is being held in by a feedback from the slave solenoid resistance wire.

Did they fit a new solenoid to the starter motor, if so it's possibly the wrong one.