86 Smoker Craft Challenger floor replace

[Bow Guy]

Can someone tell me the difference between marine plywood and pressure treated plywood.. I am replacing the floor in my Smoker Craft Challenger and was wondering which one to use. I guessing Marine is more money but is it worth it.

 

[Frey0357]

Hello Bow Guy. Marine plywood is a higher grade plywood, and therefore costs more. It is produced (or claimed to be produced) without voids in it, making it a stronger product. It is my opinion that your replacement flooring should be an exterior grade, at the least, but doesn't need to be marine grade. Either grade you select cannot be treated plywood and should be sealed with an epoxy or a Spar varnish to protect it from the elements. Some members have a "cocktail" of sorts that can be applied to protect the wood for many years to come. "WoodonGlass" has recommended one of these to many members in the forums....

Hope this helps....

Frey

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

To answer your question you're comparing apples and oranges

Marine ply's claim to fame as Frey pointed out has to do with the build quality - no voids - water proof glue - typically more plys at a thickness. It is quality and thus the cost.

Treated ply - can be whatever grade build quality but it's forced full of chemicals to avoid rot. That said you don't want pressure treated in a tin (AL) boat as the chemicals cause corrosion and will eat your boat up. :blue:

If it was a glass boat you could use PT but you would need to dry it completely before instllation as with it's high "out of the box" moisture you'll have a hard time getting resin to stick to it.

So where does that leave you? The correct question to ask is - What ply to use for my boat?

The short answer for your boat - anything graded from BCX to Marine so long as it's made with exterior glue. Search out plywood here on iboats and you can find many long long answers/discussions spelling out many different thoughts on a common question here.

 

[Woodonglass]

As with most anything, a LOT depends on how you plan on caring for and Maintaining your boat. If it's always going to be cleaned immediately after every use, and then stored under cover out of the elements then you can use just about any kind of plywood you want, with the exception of Pressure Treated wood cuz the chemicals in it will EAT your aluminum boat!!!!:nono:

If, like most of us, you don't always have the time to take that kind of meticulous care of her, then you need to be more selective in your choice of wood. The guys have given you GREAT advice. All exterior grades of plywood use the same types of glue...including Marine Grade. They are all Water proof. The differences are in the Quality and types of wood used and the numbers of plys used in the thicknesses. You pay for those differences. This forum has a LOT of threads discussing the findings of a lot of members on this subject. Here's just one of em...http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...pair/454721-floor-materials-for-aluminum-boat

Hands down Marine Grade IS the overall best grade of plywood to use but that's not to say you should use it. There are some other plywood mfg's that make some darn good plywood that is more than suitable for boat transoms, decks and stringers. If you can get your hands on it then there's no reason not to use it and save some bucks. Here's my thinking, If I had to choose between bad plywood to save money and Marine Grade I'd buy the Marine Grade. You're only talking about maybe $100 - $150 bucks for the total difference in price for the total project. But if I can get a Good quality plywood and Save the $100 bucks then I'm gunna do it. Arauco plywood is one of the MFG's that you can save money and get a quality plywood. There are others that I wouldn't buy.

 

[Bow Guy]

Thanks for the info, I found a place near me that sell marine plywood 80.00 a sheet, need 2 sheets for the floor.. I'm thinking of coating it with Olympic Rescue It deck restorer with a moderate grip and not using a rug or vinyl covering.

 

[kcassells]

Hi Bow Guy,
Good thread and Welcome aboard!! There are so many ways to approach your needs and alot of guys will chime in. I'm a newb but alot of questions and pics will make everyone answer your questions properly.
Nope.. forget PT. Simply a learning curve of knowing the differance in terms of Exterior grade ply vs. Pressure treated woods. I was the same.
Exterior grsde as stated to more costly all work, not pressure treated at all.
With exterior woods up to the costly types you need to seal it first with poly, vinylester or EEEEpoxy for any of your water proofing needs. After that some glass. The "deck restorer" is not the application to use. In addition it does not bond properly to any of the above properly once sealed by above. In addition the mfg's do not gaurantee uv or adherenace on a marine application. I called the mfg and em them. You can too.
Keep posting and pics...
KC

 

[Woodonglass]

I'd think twice before using the Olympic Rescue product in a Marine environment. I fear it won't last long. As stated it does NOT adhere all that well and It really doesn't last that long, outside on a deck. I speak from experience.
As I previousl stated, you also don't have to use MG plywood. Most of the members here on the forum don't a Good Ext. Grade works just as well if you do a good job of sealing it. You MUST seal the MG plywood too. For aluminum boats I recommend this for sealing all the plywood parts...

 

[Watermann]

Some pics of your project would be great, Smoker is made by Starcraft and there is little difference between them. When you get the deck out be sure the flotation foam below is dry all the way through. The foam gets saturated when the boat is left uncovered and fills up with rain water. Also have you checked the condition of your transom? If the decking is rotted and shot then the transom won't be far behind it. It's a whole lot easier to replace them both at the same time.

 

[Bow Guy]

cant up load pictures, says there to big....and i took them with my phone ummm. Have to figure out how to make them smaller

If I use marine ply what can I use to color it with so it is not slippery when wet? I don't want to cover it with a covering.

Not being cheap (and not restoring to new condition just a fishing & fun boat) If I use exterior grade ply and use epoxy (@ $200 plus the cost of the wood) it will cost a lot more than just buying M G ply and color coating.
How can I tell if the transom is rotted.... Looks good no cracks in the aluminum or rivets..

 

[Bow Guy]

No Title

figured it out... I have some with the floor out just have to find them or take more.. thanks for the replys keep them comong

 

[Watermann]

Since you're replacing the deck you'll need to remove the splashwell and does your Smoker have the inside aluminum on the transom covering it? Once the splashwell and aluminum covers are removed you can take a good look at the transom wood.

You can put paint and non-skid on the decking. Take a look at my SeaNymph rebuild for how I stepped out of line on my deck covering.

 

[jbcurt00]

Marine Grade needs to be protected the same as exterior plywood would need to be.

Not sure what you mean by color coated? Painted?

Unfortunately, looking at the exposed side of the transom, what you can see by looking at any exposed parts up under the splashwell, isnt a very reliable method. On a Smoker can you even see any wood at the splashwell/transom, or is it covered by a sheet of aluminum?

On many Starcrafts, until the transom ply was removed, there was very little to indicate it needed to be replaced, some had hidden rot, some had extensive damage to the interior side of the transoms aluminum skin.

 

[Woodonglass]

Marine Grade needs to be protected the same as exterior plywood would need to be.

This is Soooo True. ALL plywood must be sealed and protected from the elements if you expect it to last for any period of time. The Old Timers recipe I posted will do the trick very well and then you could Paint it with a good Oil Based Paint and Add some Play Sand to the final couple of coats to give a very good non skid surface for a fishing boat. Works really well and very durable. This kind of treatment looks good and last for decades if you keep her covered when not in use and maintain her properly.

 

[Bow Guy]

I'd think twice before using the Olympic Rescue product in a Marine environment. I fear it won't last long. As stated it does NOT adhere all that well and It really doesn't last that long, outside on a deck. I speak from experience.
As I previousl stated, you also don't have to use MG plywood. Most of the members here on the forum don't a Good Ext. Grade works just as well if you do a good job of sealing it. You MUST seal the MG plywood too. For aluminum boats I recommend this for sealing all the plywood parts...

Woodonglass.. if I use this formula can I use Rusto deck restore over it so its not slippery when wet?

 

[Bow Guy]

No Title

transom with 12 gallon fuel tank removed..

 

[Woodonglass]

Woodonglass.. if I use this formula can I use Rusto deck restore over it so its not slippery when wet?

Yes, after it's totally cured for 3-4 days,but... I wouldn't. The Deck Restore won't hold up well in a Marine environment. I'd Use Rustoleum Oil Based Paint with some Playground sand added. That works really well and stands up much better to the marine environment especially if you add the hardener to it.

 

[Watermann]

Yes, after it's totally cured for 3-4 days,but... I wouldn't. The Deck Restore won't hold up well in a Marine environment. I'd Use Rustoleum Oil Based Paint with some Playground sand added. That works really well and stands up much better to the marine environment especially if you add the hardener to it.

Take a look at my SeaNymph thread on the subject of the Rusto DR. Of course a marine environment for my boat is covered up in the driveway 90% of the time and on the water maybe 10%. Although it's seen rain, over flowing livewell and lots of wet muddy feet in the past 3 seasons. Here's a link to the last page with some pics and stuff on the durability issue. http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...8-sea-nymph-ss160-resto?p=8101395#post8101395

 

[Bow Guy]

I went to a local lumber yard today to ask about mdo and hdo plywood they only stock mdo ($53 a sheet) and can order Marine grade $80.. so he said why do I use PT its cheaper. I told him it has a reaction with aluminum. He said that they use a new chemical now that does not react with aluminum....HUMM!! Have anyone heard this??

 

[Watermann]

Yeah I've heard of it, not seen any though, most of the PT junk is green,weak stuff full of voids and knot holes. Personally I would only use marine grade for decking, more layers, no voids and an A side to die for.

 

[jbcurt00]

Ask the lumber yard guy for the pressure treating chemical, and google that chemical and reaction to aluminum.

If its ACQ, he's got it backwards: the old stuff, CCA, was safe, the newest, ACQ is not aluminum safe.

If your in California, there might be something newer offered there that I'm unaware of, so I'm not 100% that he's wrong, but I'm pretty sure be's not right.

I did find an interesting discussion of MCQ, that claims to be metal safe, but I'd never heard of it or seen it listed as the PT chemical used on XYZ brand PT plywood.

Some boat makers get kiln dried PT, but its not easy for DIY boat guys to find or buy. I also dont know what warranty comes w the PT lumber being used or what PT chemical was used....