HVAC Quote...Adding AC into a Existing Furnace

[sam am I]

It is unreasonable for me to ask the guy to break out the time from material costs?

I have a quote totaling for about $3K to add AC into my existing forced air furnace, nothing special, no big deal. Of course the quote includes T&M (He has list of various reasonable materials and a line item, "labor" and just a bottom line of $3K, no prices broke out) and I asked the guy......

"can you break out those prices?"......

He says......

"I don't do material breakdown in pricing because we do not offer anything but installed prices"

I ask.......

"Aside from the material breakdown, the $3K = labor + materials, how much of the $3K is labor?"

He doesn't reply......Shyster? Or am I missing something here in the HVAC world?

State by state thing as well if I recall in that there is case law where labor must be broke out due to labor not being taxable and certain places taxing bottom lines and pocketing the differences.........Living in the back woods state doesn't help but I will be sure to check today........Fricking crooks!!

It really needs to stop snowing so I can just go fish.......geeesh. Probably do this myself....cept evac'ing and charging the system.

 

[oldjeep]

Very few contractors would break that out. Because the next discussion is the bargain hunter customer saying - jeeze I can buy that on the internet for $x

 

[sam am I]

Very few contractors would break that out. Because the next discussion is the bargain hunter customer saying - jeeze I can buy that on the internet for $x

Yes, perhaps with some, sure, i agree and good point.

And I understand that would be his motive not to give me minutia prices on each and every materials used.....got that. That's why I secondly asked just for labor, I'm willing to pay and understand a guy had to make a living (most of us do) and marks up his materials..........I just wanted to know labor aside from his assumed reasonably marked up materials. That to me is fair business/custom practice.

 

[MTboatguy]

It has been years since I have seen labor actually broke out on an estimate.

 

[brian4321]

I do quite a few concrete "side jobs" outside of work and I always quote materials and labor separately just to be completely honest with the customer... My way of thinking is , if they don't like my labor price I won't be offended at all if they find someone cheaper because I don't want to do it for less

 

[sam am I]

It has been years since I have seen labor actually broke out on an estimate.

Hmmmmm, Interesting...As I said, some states don't charge sales tax on labor (Idaho, Montana for example) and if someone is being charged sales tax on a bottom line contract price that assuredly contains labor costs, it is unfair and illegal.

I believe the consumer is suppose to be provided (or should be) the labor billed out separately to show no sales tax was placed on labor in those states, just the materials (if sales tax on materials is applicable/contractor didn't already pay it).

I could be wrong though, I'm not a tax attorney by any stretch......

 

[MTboatguy]

Montana is not a good example, we don't have sales tax on anything, when I lived in Hawaii, they did require a break out because they charged sales tax on everything except labor, but that was back in the early 90's so I don't know what they do now, I know when I had Dad's AC fixed after he passed, they just gave me a bill with the total on it, no break out of anything really. That was in WA state. Sam, what state are you located in, it will be based on the laws in your state, one place you could probably find out is your local Dept of Labor, or the Permits office in your area.

 

[sam am I]

Idaho (we're neighbor's by about 100 miles as the crow flies) ..........as I said above "state by state" thing probably, I'll check into it today, thx for the were too's!!!

I thought WA. should have been one to break it out as well.....I might be just smok'n too much weed (if I was in WA.....hehehe) on this, not sure.

 

[KD4UPL]

If you and the contractor are going to agree to a fixed price then I don't think a break down is warranted. The price is what it is. You don't get a break down of materials vs. labor on a car or a loaf of bread or a movie ticket.
If the job will be done on a time and material basis and you will be billed according to how many of each material and how many hours are involved then you should be entitled to a break down so you at least know how much he's charging per hour.
I have my own electrical contracting business. I will just about always give a breakdown if someone asks just to be open and honest. That always leads to:
"I can buy that for less money on the internet", "My brother is a plumber and he doesn't charge that much for labor", "What if I help, would that make it less expensive?" etc. Not that it's wrong but I don't like to get into those battles.

 

[bigdee]

I do not see any reason for a cost breakdown for the simple reason those numbers could be juggled. As a former electrical/HVAC contractor I never gave price breakdowns for residential customers. Plus, giving an itemized quote usually results in a higher quote.

 

[keith2k455]

I wouldn't expect a breakdown, because it is an installed price and like previously stated, the guy is opening himself up to more negotiation. The other is, you are changing his business model from installed pricing to time and material. If you agree to a time and material job, you have to be ready to pay for all time and material, even if it goes over the $3K estimate. The problem with time and material is you have faith that the guy didn't underbid the job, but if he did, you are still on the hook for the overages because you agreed to pay for all his time and all his material, regardless of how much it takes to get the job done.

In Central IL, $3K to add AC to an existing forced air unit seems pretty competitive. I know there was no mention of size, but most people here see $3500+ for just replacement work. If I got a T&M bid for an AC install that was $3K here, I would know to expect overages. $3K for a complete job from a reputable contractor would be something I would work with, as long as he is doing the complete job and not leaving something off like the electrical or freon.

 

[rbh]

When I quote a few of my customers they want to see Travel in + out, LOA, Labour,, Materials delivered to site price, any special rentals IE Vac truck/steam truck ETC.

We have to do our do diligence to ensure all the costs are covered, if we need to get into a manhole to pull in the cable and someone paved over it and we did not allow for time finding it and cutting and removing the pavement, that cost is on us.

And then there are other companies that want just the bottom line.


Trying to get extras paid for is certainly painfull.

 

[Tnstratofam]

I own a small HVAC company and if a customer wants a breakdown on a quote for an install I personally don't have a problem with giving them an itemized estimate. I do this automatically for repair jobs.

​However I have had customers try to negotiate the price down based on what they felt was a more fair price on labor. I personally thank those customers for the opportunity to offer them the quote and leave. I know the value of my companies time and my employees skills and quote my labor based on the costs of maintaining them.

Now a larger company will be higher on their markup of equipment and labor due to the fact they have a much higher operating cost than I have. So if you feel the price is to high, or if you are afraid the labor costs may be in excess of what you feel you should be paying and the contractor isn't willing to offer you up a break down, I suggest you find a contractor who will.

Oh and as an afterthought $3k for adding A/C to an existing furnace seems like a fair price although not knowing the size or seer of the proposed A/C system and the difficulty in the install does make it hard to give a fair judgement on price.


Almost forgot if you purchase and install the equipment yourself, and you do not have your EPA certification, ( Unfortunately their are online retailers who will sell equipment to anyone,) you will most likely be buying equipment that will have no valid warranty, and you will be breaking the law possibly incurring a fine of up to $10,000.

A licensed contractor is always a good bet.

 

[mxcobra]

that's about 1300 in labor with no 220 volt electric
a condenser low efficiency are about 900
evap coils are about 400
line sets with stat wire about 200
sheet metal and misc - refrigerant brazing rod, screws,pookie, 3/4 drain no more than 100
typically building inspections are about 100
we charge anywhere from 3,000 to 5,000 depending on the situation....