04 Merc 5.0 MPI, Wrong ECM on Engine?

[yamhoss86]

Hello all, so after virtually replacing everything. My boat still wont go past 3k RPMs
My mechanic is telling me the ECM that's on my 5.0 MPI is the wrong ECM...
My serial # is 0W041535. It has closed cooling.
The only improvement i have seen so far is when i switched props. Had a 14.5x19 prop and 17 pitch prop and was able to get up to just 3k RPMs.
Not sure what to do anymore...Really dont want to splash all that cash on a new ECM.
Anyone every faced this scenario? Thanks in advance.

 

[alldodge]

Here is the first thread
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...004-mercruiser-5-0-mpi-wont-go-past-1500-rpms

I don't see it, if that was the case there would be a code thrown and there would be power reduction going on.

PCM = Closed cooling w/ Alpha drive is 865385T02 or T03

The codes were cleared before, have any others shown back up?

To set timing you install the distributer as such.

 

[Bondo]

Just finished installing and hooking up a 2004 Merc 5.0 MPI (Serial: 0W041535) to my 95 Pro-line 211.
After the engine installation i did not change the old plugs or oil.

Ayuh,... What motor was in the boat before this motor,..??

Is this motor a complete package, wirin' 'puter, the works,..??
What's it's history,..??

 

[tpenfield]

There should be a "Hex" code label on the ECM somewhere and that may be useful in cross-referencing the ECM to the Engine. Sometimes the Mercruiser part number isn't enough. If the motor is aftermarket, it could be Frankesteined a bit.

Does the mechanic have anything more to say about the ECM?

 

[yamhoss86]

Ayuh,... What motor was in the boat before this motor,..??

Is this motor a complete package, wirin' 'puter, the works,..??
What's it's history,..??

The previous motor was a 95 Merc 4.3LX, which the head blew off.
The motor (5.0 MPI), when purchases was a complete motor.
This motor was in a slightly larger boat.

 

[yamhoss86]

There should be a "Hex" code label on the ECM somewhere and that may be useful in cross-referencing the ECM to the Engine. Sometimes the Mercruiser part number isn't enough. If the motor is aftermarket, it could be Frankesteined a bit.

Does the mechanic have anything more to say about the ECM?

Thanks for the info, I'll look for the Hex code.
The mech had two previous codes before and we cleared them.
He says that the timing is controlled by the ECM so adjusting the distributor wont do anything.
He is also saying the ECM is the wrong one for this engine...
Just so frustrated...

 

[yamhoss86]

There should be a "Hex" code label on the ECM somewhere and that may be useful in cross-referencing the ECM to the Engine. Sometimes the Mercruiser part number isn't enough. If the motor is aftermarket, it could be Frankesteined a bit.

Does the mechanic have anything more to say about the ECM?

The mechanic just checked, he said it does not match up with what should be on the engine.
Is there anyway around this? Are ECM's engine specific?
Thanks in advance for any feed back.

 

[alldodge]

For folks reading this thread there is another one which the link is in my post 2, FT was into this for a while

Your timing is adjustable, but not by using the standard timing light. If the timing is not adjusted per to pic in post 2, it needs to be changed. There is also a service bulletin which indicates, if there is a performance issue or misfire, then the distributer needs to be moved ever so slightly. The movement is just like a couple hiars so to speak.

I would suggest getting a fuel pressure gauge and measure what it is at the fuel rail (43 psi at 1800 rpm)

The mechanic just checked, he said it does not match up with what should be on the engine.

What numbers is he seeing?
If we know the numbers they can be looked up

Is there anyway around this? Are ECM's engine specific?

Yes, get a new one, or have yours reflashed

Yours should be
PCM = Closed cooling w/ Alpha drive is 865385T02 or T03

 

[tpenfield]

As AD said, we can't help you unless we know the numbers.

There should be the Mercruiser Part number (which should be the 856835T02 (or T03 ), then there should be a 4 digit 'Hex' (aka Hexadecimal) number on the ECM (somewhere) that is actually the checksum of the program that was loaded into the ECM.

Plan on spending about $500 if it is just a 'reflash' of the ECM. A new ECM is around $1,600. Very expensive, a bit of a ripoff IMO for the new ones, but that is the situation.

 

[yamhoss86]

Thanks for all the feedback.
At the moment, i'm thinking about getting it re-flashed.

When my mech hooks up the engine he gets the code "ECM not compatible".

 

[alldodge]

Thanks for all the feedback.
At the moment, i'm thinking about getting it re-flashed.

When my mech hooks up the engine he gets the code "ECM not compatible".

Now wait a minute I'm not positive but that would tell me the mechanics scanner may not have the correct software installed. I would be calling Rinda to ask what causes this to show up.

Hey Fun Times what do you think about this statement

 

[Fun Times]

Is the person working on the boat an actual up to date Mercruiser dealer? Do you by chance happen to know if they are using Mercruiser's CDS computer software scan tool or an aftermarket scan tool device such as rinda technologies for example? Also is it the same tech that was able to read your ECM when he found and cleared your other two faults such as the IAC and Shift Interrupt Switch? I asked because he didn't seem to have an issue then with being compatible.

If he's a Merc dealer and using CDS then it's more possible there could be a compatible problem as he's most likely inputting in the engine serial number and if say for example the serial number is for a 350 MPI but the internal ECM info is for a 5.0 MPI then yes I could see it coming up as not compatible.
Aftermarket scan tools I don't believe have that ability to know exactly what engine model it's truly connected to as the scan tool should only be able to read what the preprogramed info within the ECM says even if mounted on the wrong engine.

Usually "communication" problems are more common between the scan tool and ECM due to power related issues or an RFI radio interference signal interferes with the communication such as the scan tool cable is to close/laying across the spark plug wires.
So if he's a new service tech to you or not using the same scan tool that was used earlier, then it could also be incorrect software or cable cord connection issues "possibly" connecting to wrong data port wiring harness connector.

Below is an example of some information that you/one should be able read found on an ECM/PCM to know if it's the correct ECM. It's doubtful that the wrong ECM came from Mercruiser but being a 2004 engine model, the ECM may have been changed over at any time since it seems you bought this engine from someone as a turn key read to go engine?

ECM Calibration Label
An ECM can be readily identified by the two wire harness connectors A and B.
The ECM calibration label includes the information necessary to determine the calibration
that an engine is equipped with from the factory. The top line is the engine model
designation. Alpha ECMs must only be used on Alpha models, Bravo ECMs must only be
used on Bravo models, and Inboard ECMs must only be used on inboard models. The
second line specifies the simple calibration number and version. In this case it is calibration
863618, version 4. The bottom line lists the model year of the ECM, in this case 2005,
followed by detailed identification numbers of the exact calibration. Ensure that you have
this information before calling customer service.
496 MAG BASE
863618-4
859610
MY 2005p5AABY_O59_BASE_P_AA

 

[muc]

ECM not compatible means the its not compatible with the SCAN tool. NOT that it's not compatible with the engine.
I think you should try a new mechanic before you try a new/reflashed ECM
Also a new service bulletin came out last year on how to wire up a diode and 9 volt battery to set the distribrator --- it a much better way to do that job.

 

[yamhoss86]

Is the person working on the boat an actual up to date Mercruiser dealer? Do you by chance happen to know if they are using Mercruiser's CDS computer software scan tool or an aftermarket scan tool device such as rinda technologies for example? Also is it the same tech that was able to read your ECM when he found and cleared your other two faults such as the IAC and Shift Interrupt Switch? I asked because he didn't seem to have an issue then with being compatible.

If he's a Merc dealer and using CDS then it's more possible there could be a compatible problem as he's most likely inputting in the engine serial number and if say for example the serial number is for a 350 MPI but the internal ECM info is for a 5.0 MPI then yes I could see it coming up as not compatible.
Aftermarket scan tools I don't believe have that ability to know exactly what engine model it's truly connected to as the scan tool should only be able to read what the preprogramed info within the ECM says even if mounted on the wrong engine.

Usually "communication" problems are more common between the scan tool and ECM due to power related issues or an RFI radio interference signal interferes with the communication such as the scan tool cable is to close/laying across the spark plug wires.
So if he's a new service tech to you or not using the same scan tool that was used earlier, then it could also be incorrect software or cable cord connection issues "possibly" connecting to wrong data port wiring harness connector.

Below is an example of some information that you/one should be able read found on an ECM/PCM to know if it's the correct ECM. It's doubtful that the wrong ECM came from Mercruiser but being a 2004 engine model, the ECM may have been changed over at any time since it seems you bought this engine from someone as a turn key read to go engine?

Thanks for the feedback.
The person is not from any Merc dealership, just the local marina mechanic.
All i know is they use something like a laptop.
It is the same Mech that read my two codes, was wondering the same thing. Just did not ask him how he was able to read the code and have ECM not compatible.

As muc suggested, i am strongly considering to get a second opinion on the matter.
Will look over the example, thanks for all the help.

 

[yamhoss86]

ECM not compatible means the its not compatible with the SCAN tool. NOT that it's not compatible with the engine.
I think you should try a new mechanic before you try a new/reflashed ECM
Also a new service bulletin came out last year on how to wire up a diode and 9 volt battery to set the distribrator --- it a much better way to do that job.

Thank you very much for the feedback.
Will try to get a second opinion on this.
Would you happen to have the link to the bulletin?
thanks again.

 

[muc]

Sorry but I can’t provide a link. This is what I have to agree to every time I want to look at any MerCruiser literature.
__________________________________________________ ________________
I recognize that the literature on this MercNET website is protected by copyright law and is intended for the use of authorized Mercury Marine contracted businesses and for the purpose of servicing and maintaining Mercury Marine products for customers. Any copying, distribution, or resale of this literature is strictly prohibited. I also recognize that I may be liable for damages related to any copyright infringement or other violation of other intellectual property rights of Brunswick Corporation.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

The info for this tool is located in Service Bulletin 2011-11R2 is on pages 15 thru 20.
The name of the Bulletin is “Diagnostic Supplement for MerCruiser Engines with Emission
Control Technology (ECT)”
This procedure was developed for the engines with catalytic converters because they can have problems if the distributor (high voltage switch) isn’t just right. MerCruiser has found that the tolerance between the distributor (high‑voltage switch) and the drive components may increase. So as the timing chain, timing gears, distributor shaft drive gear and cam gear all wear in, the rotor shaft may become slightly out of phase with the distributor housing, which can result in misfire under load. So they came up with a better way to set it.
Maybe your local MerCruiser dealer can print you a copy or somebody somewhere has received permission to post it on the web.
This is what is printed at the bottom of every page of the service bulletin.
__________________________________________________ __________________
THE INFORMATION IN THIS DOCUMENT IS CONFIDENTIAL AND PROTECTED BY COPYRIGHT AND IS THE PROPERTY OF MERCURY MARINE. This document is provided for the sole and exclusive use of the original recipient as prescribed by Mercury Marine and may not be distributed or copied, digitally or otherwise, without the prior written consent of Mercury Marine.
__________________________________________________ _______________________

 

[alldodge]

Thanks Muc for the info, I found it here
http://www.crowleymarine.com/sb/2/15801

Once you bring it up, click the save button and it will save a copy to your computer in PDF

 

[yamhoss86]

Thanks everyone for all the input and feedback, really appreciate it.
The problem is solved, the TPS had a corroded wire.
Happy to be back out on the water