Fuel stabilizers

Old Ironmaker

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Phase separation is the issue with Ethanol but a chemist that works at the Esso refinery down the road told me that the fuel additive like Stabil or 2+4 will also help with condensation when a tank is not 100% full. Moisture loading can be an issue especially in hot humid conditions and sitting in a slip. For the cost I will keep putting it in. I run 91 octane and didn't my first few years. The plugs are far cleaner now than wilt regular 89 octane after the same hours.
 

roffey

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The only difference between premium and regular gas is the octane number which will have no affect on your idling unless your timing was so far off that you had pre ignition occurring. There must have been something else going on.

As far as ethanol goes, any engine made since 1984 uses hoses that are tolerant to ethanol.

BTW, depending on where you live, there is no guarantee that premium gas does not contain ethanol.

I meant to say in my last post I'm not disagreeing with you. Funny how one word changes everything, lol. Here in Canada or at least Ontario we have three grades, Regular 87 octane, Mid-grade 89 octane and Premium 91 octane. Regular 87 octane is 87 percent octane and 13 percent ethanol.
 

bruceb58

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Phase separation is the issue with Ethanol but a chemist that works at the Esso refinery down the road told me that the fuel additive like Stabil or 2+4 will also help with condensation when a tank is not 100% full. Moisture loading can be an issue especially in hot humid conditions and sitting in a slip. For the cost I will keep putting it in. I run 91 octane and didn't my first few years. The plugs are far cleaner now than wilt regular 89 octane after the same hours.
The condensation issue is a myth. There is not enough condensation that can build up that can bring ethanol fuel up to a separation point. In fact, the amount is a fraction of what ethanol can absorb. If anyone is havbing problems with separation, it's either a leaking gas gap, vent or your fuel supplier sucks.

As far as cleaner plugs, in a low compression engine that is designed for 87 octane, you normally have cleaner plugs burning the octane the engine was designed for than the slower igniting higher octane.
 
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bruceb58

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Regular 87 octane is 87 percent octane and 13 percent ethanol.
You need to read up on what octane means. Octane is a rating for preignition. It is not a substance or a chemical. Just so you know the octane of pure ethanol is way over 100 and actually is used to increase octane in a fuel so that other additives aren't needed.

I can guarantee you that your fuel does not have 13% ethanol.
 
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WIMUSKY

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No popcorn yet? Members are slippin'.......:laugh:

:pop2:
 

Patfromny

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I use stabilizer to protect the fuel pump and gaskets. I have read that ethanol dries out these components. I am not a trusting soul so I also drain the carbs of all my machines anyway. I also replaced all the fuel lines on my 77 engine with ethanol resistant to make sure. I can't say I'm an expert but since using the additive I have had no carb issues. I put the additive into each portable tank before I fill them. Better safe than sorry? To me it is really an act of faith. I have yet to hear that these additives really do anything. They are cheap enough and I will continue to use them until 60 minutes or a similar channel tells me what I already sort of suspect...Snake oil of the Millennium. I think emptying your carbs and fuel lines is the safest thing to do. I have rebuilt enough small carbs in my day. I'd rather not have to do so again. The additive in your tank can't hurt. It hasn't seemed to affect performance of my machines. For this reason, I will continue to use it.
 

roffey

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Personally, I just think Bruce likes to argue. He is right and I will admit my thinking was wrong. I thought that 87 meant there was 87 per gas and 13 percent ethanol but seriously Bruce there are more diplomatic ways to make your point. What this has to do with the original topic, who knows. Bruce will be Bruce.
 

bruceb58

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I thought that 87 meant there was 87 per gas and 13 percent ethanol
Well now you know!

I agree....how an engine idles with a different octane number or ethanol in it has nothing to do with stabilizers.
 

ondarvr

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I use stabilizer to protect the fuel pump and gaskets. I have read that ethanol dries out these components. I am not a trusting soul so I also drain the carbs of all my machines anyway. I also replaced all the fuel lines on my 77 engine with ethanol resistant to make sure. I can't say I'm an expert but since using the additive I have had no carb issues. I put the additive into each portable tank before I fill them. Better safe than sorry? To me it is really an act of faith. I have yet to hear that these additives really do anything. They are cheap enough and I will continue to use them until 60 minutes or a similar channel tells me what I already sort of suspect...Snake oil of the Millennium. I think emptying your carbs and fuel lines is the safest thing to do. I have rebuilt enough small carbs in my day. I'd rather not have to do so again. The additive in your tank can't hurt. It hasn't seemed to affect performance of my machines. For this reason, I will continue to use it.


This isn't an insult, people can do whatever it is that makes them feel they're doing the right thing. You are the exact customer the additive companies love to find, you don't know if it works, can't prove it does or doesn't, but it doesn't cost much, so you use it all the time because it makes you "feel" better. There are no amount facts that will change the habit, you just do it.

If anybody looks into the chemistry behind the claims they'll find that while some of the additives may help in a few ways, the list of possible benefits on the labels are at the very edge of being non truths, sort of like miracle weight loss pills.

I do believe these inventors/chemists/companies, start out to make a good product, but then the bean counters and marketing departments take over, they don?t care if it works or not, they?re just employed to squeeze every penny out the formula and production costs, then increase the perceived need for the product and charge as much as possible for some very simple and low cost ingredients that have limited efficacy.

Again, it?s not that they don'?t help in some ways, it?s that marketing departments have done a very good job of making people think they'?re essential products for the health of an engine.

I look at all the replies to these threads, both sides (always add and never add) report the same results, very few or no issues. This indicates the problem probably isn't as severe as the marketing departments want you to think, but I don?t see an issue with adding something for long term storage, long term storage is not a month or so though.
 
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ondarvr

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Intersting, I keep trying fix the punctuation, but when I hit "post reply" it changes to something different than what I modified.
 

Patfromny

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No insult taken. I know I have had a fuel line start coming apart and clog my carb. I figure I'll know in a few years if I have wasted my money or not. My boat gets used sporadically at best and the fuel is just sitting in the lines all the time. I paid almost nothing for my stabil. It was on clearance at Depot last fall and I scooped up 6 bottles for 2 bucks each. I figure it can't hurt to use it at that price. I believe it helps for long term storage but I don't see how it will aid in keeping the seals and fuel pump good. Like I said, I'll know in a few years I guess.
 

ondarvr

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Intersting, I keep trying fix the punctuation, but when I hit "post reply" it changes to something different than what I modified.


Must be something with this new computer, it won't spell-check as I type in iboats, so I use word and then copy and paste, but what gets posted isn't exactly what I typed, punctuation, spaces, letters and other stuff are changed slightly. When I go back and edit it it will make changes, but not in the exact way I modified it.
 

Watermann

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Must be something with this new computer, it won't spell-check as I type in iboats, so I use word and then copy and paste, but what gets posted isn't exactly what I typed, punctuation, spaces, letters and other stuff are changed slightly. When I go back and edit it it will make changes, but not in the exact way I modified it.

MS Word is a high level editor, I would imagine the forum is based in a low level editor such as Perl.Sort of like high octane vs low. :lol:
 

Pat_220v

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We put premium unleaded ethanol free gas with stabil in all our equipment at the end of the year. We then run each more for a bit. Then we top off the gas tank so there is minimal or no air.

This includes boats, trucks, lawn tools, cleaning tools, 2 cycle motors, 4 cycles, small engines. For the 2 cycles we just use the normal amount of oil specified for the engine.

Stabil is dirt cheap. I think it would be foolish not to do it. The more gas in the tank, the more it can lose and absorb before having an issue. The one tank of premium for the end of the year is not a big deal.
 

Patfromny

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Good idea on the super. I read the back of the stabil can (I read the back of everyhing..even the ketchup bottle, I have a problem) the back of the can says that heavy dosing won't effect anything so I double the dosage on the last tank. Then empty the carbs to be sure.
 

ondarvr

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People don't really complain about any of stabilizers, and everybody loves the one they use, so what you will probably hear is "I use it in every tank and have never had a probelm". This goes right along with the guy saying "I never use anything and I never have a problem".
 
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Patfromny

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I have experienced fuel lines coming apart because of ethanol and clogging my carb. I have also had to rebuild a few of my carbs on various machines because of ethanol. I had never had to rebuild a carb before ethanol. So I figure I might as well try something that claims to help this situation. I will have to wait another year or so to see if I have been sold Snake oil but the up side would be that it does work and I won't have to put those tiny carb pieces back together with my fat fingers. I figure, if it doesn't work, I'm out 12 bucks. Lol. I am not one of the lucky ones who have had zero problems without using treatments. I have rebuilt carbs on my chainsaws, powerwasher, outboards, and snow blower. I had to try something new. Doesn't effect performance so why not?
 

ondarvr

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The stabilizers won't do much to protect fuel lines and other rubber parts, just possibly help the fuel stay fresh longer. If you have never needed to clean a carb before ethanol it would be odd, ethanol has been around for about 25 years, and I was working on motors long before that, and I can tell you I cleaned plenty of carbs prior to ethanol. My carbs probably stay cleaner now than before ethanol.

Fuel lines have been ethanol resistant since the early 90's, if your fuel lines are older than that they need replacing anyhow. Even now some of the cheap power equipment from China has fuel lines that will degrade if someone opens a beer in the same room.

Seafoam can destroy some fuel lines quickly when added to the fuel like some people recommend, adding more than a small amount can dissolve some of the fuel lines on small power equipment in minutes.
 

Patfromny

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I agree on the fuel lines and have replaced them. The carbs have all had bad fuel pump diaphragms from the fuel sitting inside the bowl. I have never experienced that until the advent of ethanol. Cleaning is one thing, replacing diaphragms and gaskets is what I meant by rebuilding. As I mentioned earlier in this thread I also run all machines dry and empty the tanks if winterizing or summarizing in the case of the snow blower. I just don't enjoy rebuilding carbs every 2 yrs.
 
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