Whining alpha one/gen 1?

[nola mike]

Luckily, this is my spare drive. It's been sitting for ~4 years with no gear oil because it's my spare and it needed an input shaft seal. Finally got around to doing that and replacing the water pump. After a comedy of errors (missing the copper tube, missing/forgetting to replace the captive anode bolt), I put it on the boat last weekend. Started it up, noticed that there was a bit of a whine from the outdrive. Drove it for about 15 miles, including some just-short-of-WOT runs without problem. Took it back to land, whine still there. Drained some fluid, which I can't find the pic of ATM, but it was dark. No metal, didn't seem milky. So, 2 things when putting the drive back together.
1. All of the upper bearings had what seemed to be just surface rust, but initially weren't turning easily. I cleaned them, didn't notice any pitting, and all turned smoothly when I put some gear oil in them. But I didn't like it.
2. I screwed up when disassembling the input shaft. For some reason I thought the two bearings were different sizes, so didn't pay attention to the bearing/races. So I may have mismatched them. But maybe not.

I DID pay attention to the shims behind the ujoints, and when I reassembled the preload seemed right (there was just the smallest amount of play). This wasn't the rolling torque method, so I don't think I messed that part up. Don't know about the upper cap though. I don't remember any shims being present, but I assume there must be something there to set the preload, right?

So what's the next step. Either way, I'm putting the old outdrive on (I had just wanted to replace the impeller at my leisure, which it looks like is going to be this weekend). This was a cheap drive, and it probably isn't worth the effort to rebuild, but wanted to know if there was anything simple I should check. FWIW, it's cooling and shifting fine.

 

[H20Rat]

I'm curious what some of the old timers have to say, but at least in my experience, some alpha's just whine no matter what. The drive on my '94 deck boat is fairly loud, and has been since I've owned it (6 years) The previous owners also confirmed that it whines louder than many other alphas.

 

[Benny67]

1. All of the upper bearings had what seemed to be just surface rust, but initially weren't turning easily. I cleaned them, didn't notice any pitting, and all turned smoothly when I put some gear oil in them. But I didn't like it.
.

Uhh...there's your culprit. You basically answered the question yourself.

My opinion, bearings need to be as smooth as a babies ass...I don't even handle them without latex gloves on for fear of the oils on my hands corroding them in the future.

Surface rust = pitting

Pitting = trouble

You Might be okay....you might not be...can't tell without being there and seeing them in person.

 

[Benny67]

I'd also double check your preload. Too tight=whining

The preload is 6 inch lbs I believe

Some of the older drives had a cupped washer instead of a preload and that in conjunction with the proper spacers on the assembly were suppose to set the proper distance for the bearings to spin merrily along.


Also it's a good idea to use a new nut and washer once it's been apart once already.

I set the last two I took apart to around 5lbs. I felt it's best to feel it by hand and listen and feel if there is any resistance or latteral tension but using the 6 inch lbs as a general guideline.. but that's me..I'm sure someone will flame me for not going by the book.

I believe chrisssa660 has a very informative utube video you should watch...

 

[nola mike]

Benny67 : Yeah, the bearings worried me. Like I said, I didn't see/feel any pitting, but who knows. This was both on the input shaft bearings and the driven gear bearings. I don't have the special tools to replace, and the drive probably isn't worth it. Just wanted to see if there's any way to troubleshoot, or if the drive will give me warning before grenading. I don't care if it blows, I just don't want to be 10 miles from home when it does. And as I mentioned, the preload on my drive isn't set with the rolling torque method.
smokingcrater : Well, seems abnormal to me. Don't remember it being that loud before, and it's certainly louder than the other drive. Maybe I'll get a video this weekend.

 

[achris]

No alpha drive will be noisy if all the settings are right. Anyone who says they are naturally noisy hasn't set one up properly.

Ok. Sat for 4 years with no oil. Bearing had rust. Hmmmm. Yes your bearings have pitting. Where do you think the rust came from?

Yes the drive will implode, and you will likely get about 8 seconds notice.

Either pull it apart, replace all the bearings and set up all the preload and clearances, or toss it on the scrap heap.

Chris.

 

[Benny67]

10 miles from home is what sea tow is for....make them earn their $150/ year.

 

[nola mike]

No alpha drive will be noisy if all the settings are right. Anyone who says they are naturally noisy hasn't set one up properly.

Ok. Sat for 4 years with no oil. Bearing had rust. Hmmmm. Yes your bearings have pitting. Where do you think the rust came from?

Yes the drive will implode, and you will likely get about 8 seconds notice.

Either pull it apart, replace all the bearings and set up all the preload and clearances, or toss it on the scrap heap.

Chris.

Yeah, fair enough, though 8 seconds is more time than I thought I'd get. Didn't know if that was enough to trash the bearings. Not a ton of rust, and they were spinning free when clean and lubed. Was hoping to see if there was a way to isolate the problem short of a rebuild, or at least keep it as a backup. Every time I've looked into doing this the cost of parts/tools is more than the cost of a new unit.

 

[Benny67]

I'm planning on tearing both of mine down at the end of the season. I have yet to tear down the lower section but plan on buying the tools this fall so I can give them both a clean bill of health for the 2018 season.

Nola, where are you located?

 

[achris]

10 miles from home is what sea tow is for....make them earn their $150/ year.

Wrong attitude. These people put their lives at risk, the least the boating public can do it make sure they go to sea in a sea-worthy vessel. Knowingly going to sea in something that is at risk of not coming home is foolhardy and irresponsible.

Chris.......

 

[Benny67]

Uhh....joking?

Why would anyone purposely break down just to get towed in ?

Believe me pal, I painstakingly go over EVERY item in my vessel for safety and reliability.

I don't leave the dock unless i'm 100% certain all my bases are covered

 

[achris]

Yeah. Ok. Didn't realize you were joking (it didn't come across that way). Happy to hear you do have the right attitude.

Cheers
Chris. ..

 

[Rick Stephens]

I recently did a reseal on an Alpha1 Gen2. After setting the pre-load I took the boat out for a trial run and the drive whined like an old hydraulic pump. Brought it home, tore it back down and the fit at the nut was loosie goosey. Redid the preset and the drive is quiet as ever. Running it noisy means it is doing bearing damage, and maybe gear damage. If the preload is too loose the pinion gear will climb the driven gear and that's how drives eat themselves.Too tight and the bearings get hot, then hotter.

 

[nola mike]

Sorry Rick Stephens , not understanding all that technical talk like "loosie goosey". Are you talking the pinion nut on the input shaft? I still can't help but think that the whining is due to something not being adjusted properly. I'm wondering if I lost a shim or something on the top bearing cup. Like I said, I kept track of the shims between the yoke and housing, but didn't notice anything on the upper cover. I'd like to at least check the, what? Lash and preload on the upper driveshaft and gears?

 

[Rick Stephens]

Sorry Rick Stephens , not understanding all that technical talk like "loosie goosey".

Whatever.

 

[Benny67]

Running it noisy means it is doing bearing damage, and maybe gear damage. If the preload is too loose the pinion gear will climb the driven gear and that's how drives eat themselves.Too tight and the bearings get hot, then hotter.

True words...

Like I said,when I have done mine in the past, I set the preload but also slightly tweaked it by feel. Put some loctite on it for some added piece of mind (Green stuff for assembled parts)

The Castle nut also needs to torqued to like 200ft lbs. If thats too loose...or too tight that's a bad thing as well.

 

[Benny67]

Feel the top of the drive and see if it's hot after a short run. That will tell you if there is friction going on. Although, if you do that and there is friction. It might be too late to save it.