grumman repaint

iam2sam

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
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A few months ago, I acquired a 1973 Grumman 17.5 squareback canoe in marvelous condition. No leaks, and I cannot even find any of the small scratches and dents that are nearly always present on these boats. It does, however, have one serious cosmetic issue. Quite a few years ago, the original owner (the father of the person I bought it) from had primed it, and painted over that with a meadow grass camo top coat. The detail brush work is good, but the entire top coat is peeling quite badly (inside and out). The primer, otoh, seems to be intact, and very well adhered to the aluminum. My problem here is that the PO did not know what kind of primer was used. It is a fairly light, fairly bright yellow with no gloss and a greenish cast. That suggests zinc chromate to me, as does the fact that it is well-adhered to the hull, while the top coat is poorly adhered to it. I would very much like to remove the top coat and repaint in a plain tan, green, or olive shade, but I don't want to go to that much trouble only to find that my new paint is peeling just as badly. Is there any definitive (non-destructive) way to determine the nature of the primer? Any suggestions on removing the top coat and/or on what paint to replace it with? Other ideas? Thanks.

SAM
 

gm280

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
14,605
Usually even with Zinc Chromate, which by the way is a great sealer type primer over aluminum, gets a primer coat on top of that Zinc Chromate to adhere the top coat of paint. The initial Zinc Chromate is a protective coat to stop any aluminum corrosion. But then you should use a primer coat over the Zinc Chromate and finish off with a color top coat. I really have never tried to remove a color or top coat of paint from Zinc Chromate. Not sure you can actually do that without removing some of the Zinc Chromate in areas as well. You could try some lacquer thinner in a small area to see how you can remove the peeling paint and see if it removes the Zinc Chromate as well. Other then that, you may have to strip everything and start from fresh again. JMHO
 

iam2sam

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
42
Usually even with Zinc Chromate, which by the way is a great sealer type primer over aluminum, gets a primer coat on top of that Zinc Chromate to adhere the top coat of paint. The initial Zinc Chromate is a protective coat to stop any aluminum corrosion. But then you should use a primer coat over the Zinc Chromate and finish off with a color top coat. I really have never tried to remove a color or top coat of paint from Zinc Chromate. Not sure you can actually do that without removing some of the Zinc Chromate in areas as well. You could try some lacquer thinner in a small area to see how you can remove the peeling paint and see if it removes the Zinc Chromate as well. Other then that, you may have to strip everything and start from fresh again. JMHO
The way this is peeling, it doesn't look like removal will be much of a problem. Maybe the painter didn't know that there is supposed to be an intermediate coat. Based on color and adhestion to the aluminum, how confident would you be that this really is zinc chromate? Any way to actually test a sample?
 

gm280

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
14,605
The way this is peeling, it doesn't look like removal will be much of a problem. Maybe the painter didn't know that there is supposed to be an intermediate coat. Based on color and adhestion to the aluminum, how confident would you be that this really is zinc chromate? Any way to actually test a sample?
I personally don't know how to test the base coat to determine it's makeup. However, if the top coat is peeling so easy and the base is staying intact, I would remove the top coat and then after prepping the base coat (light sanding and a wipe down of Acetone) and spray a quality primer on after you're finish removing that top coat. Then you can use a top coat of the same manufacturer to make sure the primer and top coats are absolutely compatible. Whatever you decide to go with, try to get a paint that has a separate hardener you mix with it. That will make the top coat so much more scratch resistance, fuel resistance and shinier... JMHO
 

iam2sam

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
42
I personally don't know how to test the base coat to determine it's makeup. However, if the top coat is peeling so easy and the base is staying intact, I would remove the top coat and then after prepping the base coat (light sanding and a wipe down of Acetone) and spray a quality primer on after you're finish removing that top coat. Then you can use a top coat of the same manufacturer to make sure the primer and top coats are absolutely compatible. Whatever you decide to go with, try to get a paint that has a separate hardener you mix with it. That will make the top coat so much more scratch resistance, fuel resistance and shinier... JMHO
If I knew the manufacturer of the base coat, I would also most likely know for certain whether or not it is zinc chromate :) I'm going to need to guess. Any thoughts on the probability of "safe" options? Would it help if I took and posted some photos? I don't mind the effort of doing the top coat scraping and repainting, but the current paint coat, while not beautiful, is adequately protecting the hull. I'd really hate to spend hours and hours scraping and redoing the top coat, only to have it peel as well. I know that the option of taking it down to bare metal is the only one that guarantees success, but that is beyond what I'm willing to do before next boating season. Maybe after I beat it up dragging it around beaches for several months and more of the existing paint departs, I'll revisit the "bare metal" idea for next Winter :)
 

gm280

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
14,605
If I knew the manufacturer of the base coat, I would also most likely know for certain whether or not it is zinc chromate :) I'm going to need to guess. Any thoughts on the probability of "safe" options? Would it help if I took and posted some photos? I don't mind the effort of doing the top coat scraping and repainting, but the current paint coat, while not beautiful, is adequately protecting the hull. I'd really hate to spend hours and hours scraping and redoing the top coat, only to have it peel as well. I know that the option of taking it down to bare metal is the only one that guarantees success, but that is beyond what I'm willing to do before next boating season. Maybe after I beat it up dragging it around beaches for several months and more of the existing paint departs, I'll revisit the "bare metal" idea for next Winter :)
To answer your question, Sure, any time you can add pictures concerning most anything, the better we all can offer ideas and suggestions after seeing what you are dealing with. Take some from a distance and then up close to allow us to see the actual surface in question. Zinc Chromate typical has a greenish yellowish color. But there are variable shades of it as well depending on manufacturer. Make sure you get a shot of the peeling paint as well. I'd like to see what it looks like too. JMHO
 
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