Case Leak on 60HP

[Freezebear]

Well, I finally got a call from the mechanic today and they said that my case has a leak between the 2 halves that is sucking outside air in and causing it to run rough and not idle. They said this would be about a $1500-$2000 bill. They cannot get to this type repair until after the summer is over. Motor has excellent compression and runs like a champ before this happened. I could save a lot of money if I did this my self because I think the motor is worth it. I also need a new stator plate because it has started leaking potting compound but still tests OK. What should I do? Just how hard is it to pull off this powerhead and break the case apart to change the seals? I have the Clymer's manual but wanted to know from first hand experience how hard this is.<br />

 

[DJ]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Freeze,<br /><br />You can do it. Got manual-right? Got tools-right?<br /><br />Go for it.<br /><br />Losing a week is a lot better than a whole season. Plus, you'll know every square inch of that engine. You'll save some $$$ to boot.<br /><br />Good luck, we'll be here.

 

[stairliftoheaven]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Is that a 60hp twin? what year?

 

[Freezebear]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

No it is a '92 60HP 3cylinder motor. I have basic tools and the manual. Will I need any special tools to do this? I am going up to the mechanic now to go pick her up and bring back home. Will ask them to show me exactly where the leak is.<br />After I get the powerhead pulled off, how do I go about replacing the gel-seal? If I don't move the crankshaft, will it be as simple as seperating it, cleaning both surfaces, adding the gel-seal, and then bolting back together? Should I also change the upper and lower bearing seals?

 

[DJ]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Freeze,<br /><br />I cannot speak to the gel seal. The manual should explain that. Even if you have to spend another $30-40.00 for the OEM manual, you're still way ahead.

 

[Freezebear]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Hey DJ, I got it all torn down now. It was not hard at all! $1500-$2000??? I think I'm in the wrong line of work! Ok here's what I found. There are supposed to be 2 taper pins that align the two case halves together, but mine are missing. Also I have a hairline crack on the lower cylinder's running through where the taper pin goes. It does not go all the way through to the inside though. Where does this leave me now? I'm all ready to put this thing back together, but will have to wait until Monday anyway to get the GelSeal stuff.<br />PS: I have photos of the crack and engine if anyone is interested. I will send ASAP. I can't seem to figure out how to post a picture here. Thanks.

 

[DJ]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Freeze,<br /><br />Did the repair shop guys show you where the leak was? Was it near, or at, the crack you mention?<br /><br />If not, I'd say your probably OK, just need a reseal. <br /><br />It's kind of scary though about the pins are missing. That may be why the original seal didn't take.

 

[Freezebear]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Thanks DJ for the fast response. No the mechanic wasn't there today, but the documentation states the leak is at the case joint in middle of block. From the outside you could see some of the red Gel-Seal material in this area. Gel Seal is red, right?? <br />The crack is in the bottom cylinder, my problem is in the upper cylinder. I wish i could send you a picture of where my crack is. It is hard to explain where it is. It runs across the mating surface and you can see it on the outside also, but not on the inside. <br />The 2 pins being missing bothers me too. The manual says that is what aligns everything.

 

[DJ]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Freeze,<br /><br />I think that the pins missing would make it difficult to align things and not destroy the seal. I'll bet the halves slipped (no pins) during assembly<br /><br />I think you found your leak, with the seal material on the outside. <br /><br />I'm not sure about the "red" seal stuff. Does the manual call it out by name?<br /><br />Is it RTV? That would make sense, if it is.<br /><br />I am thinking that the crack you see is not an issue.

 

[Freezebear]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Yes, the manual does call it by name. It says use OMC GelSeal & Gasket Remover to clean the surfaces then coat with OMC LocQuic Primer and let dry, then use OMC GelSeal 2 to make a bead. The stuff I think is like RTV, it says it will start curing when the surfaces are tightened down, but not to use any other sealant but GelSeal 2 that is less than 1 year old or leaks will develop. <br />I guess I will know Monday when I go get my parts, whether the stuff on there now was GelSeal2 or not. As far as the crack goes, I don't think it's an issue either, but I don't like the way it goes across the mating surface. Don't know of anyway to repair it without affecting the integrity of the seal between the 2 halves.

 

[CorB]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Freeze,<br /><br />For what it's worth to you:<br />Instead of Gel Seal, Loctite 518 can also be used (it's red), the characteristics are that it cures in absence of air and has no shimming effect, for as far as I know that prevents the need of retorqueing after drying.<br /><br />When you drive out/drive in the taper pins from the wrong direction, the crankcase will damage, maybe that's what happened to your engine?<br />I think the taper pins are critical to align the halves, otherwise you could risk that they will move while running and ruin the gel seal (maybe someone with more experience than I can say something about this?)<br /><br />I've just rebuilt my '78 55 HP but had some troubles with the crankcase halves and the sealing of them. It started leaking between the 2 cylinders (not noticable on the outside) and also to the lower bearing. That caused the engine to run rough @ idle and running lean and scored one of my pistons after 6 hours of running. I don't know exactly what went wrong in the rebuilding process, but propably I didn't use enough Loctite, didn't torque the bolts enough or didn't clean/degrease the crankcase halves enough? So my advice is to take this sealing very serious and make sure you do the right thing.

 

[Freezebear]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Thanks CorB and DJ. I took sealing the case very slowly. I cleaned and recleaned the case. Used OMC GelSeal2 with one continuous bead. Looked real good. Torqued with in/lb wrench and even calculted the difference for using the crowsfoot on the hard to get to bolts. It makes almost a 40in/lb difference when using the crowsfoot. Hope I did it right.<br />Now I have a new question/problem.<br />Before I went to put the head back on, I noticed a spot with some scuffing on the cylinder wall of the #1 cylinder(the same one that was sneezing). It is not very bad. The spot is about an inch diameter. It can be felt with a fingernail though and I'm afraid it will hang a ring. I figured I have nothing to lose now at this point so I have started lightly sanding on the spot. It is not very thick, so is it OK to just sand until shiny and see what happens?

 

[CorB]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Freeze,<br /><br />Can't say if a bit sanding is sufficient to cure it, but you should be very careful that your cylinder remains clean from grit etc.. because it will score it again when running.<br />You will for sure loose compression if you don't fix it the way it should be fixed (like honing & rings), but will it be noticable? I don't know.<br /><br />If I were in your shoes, I'll propably tore it further down, checked the crankshaft & bearings also, honed the cylinders and mounted fresh piston rings. You might have scoring on your pistons/piston rings also which you can't see and can't cure this way. <br />Just to be sure about everything.<br /><br />Sorry I can't help you better than this.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Freeze, to back up a little...the pins missing tell me this engine has possibly been apart before???<br /> I've done quite a few omc's, and I can't say that the pins missing would cause the gel seal to "leak". It's put on in a 3/8" bead if done right.<br />If the case-halves have ever been apart and somebody "sanded" or romoved any material in cleaning the sealing surfaces, this can cause problems, as I just found this out with a cross-flow V6 block I bought from someone I thought would be dependable.<br />After torqueing the case haves, it had put too much pressure on the crankshaft seal rings, and cost be a powerhead in the end.<br />When installing the lower bearing carrier and the uppper, I should have been tipped-off when I had trouble starting the bolts....<br />Back to your engine....Any time you remove a piston, a deglaze job and new rings should be used.<br />Some may argue with this, but also replace rod bearings-big end, and wrist-pin end.<br />As CorB stated, check for vertical scoring in the cylinder AND on the piston.<br />Tell us what ya find.

 

[Freezebear]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Well, I fired it up today. It's not spitting out the top carb like it was doing earlier. It still is not right. Before starting, I opened the thermostat cover and checked thermostat and lo and behold the new thermostat had popped it's top. The little nipple that sits aginst the seal had broken right off. Had to run motor without thermostat until I can get one tommorow.<br />Started it up and now the thing runs but smokes like crazy. It only runs if I give it throttle. If you close the throttle back, I can get it to idle beautifully at 1000 RPM. At that point the timing plate is against it's stop and the carbs are cracked open just a little. If you let the throttle plates close, the engine dies instantly. What gives?? I do not know what else to do. Last thing, I'm going to do is go get a new thermostat and a fresh tank of gas to rule those out. Gas is about 3-4 weeks old and is gas/oil only mixture that has been closed. Don't think it's bad, but what the heck? If that don't do it, I guess I'm done with it. Just start saving my money for a 4 stroke Yamaha 70HP and be done with this crap.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

At idle, the plates should be FULLY closed and you set your idle speed with the timing, which should also start to advance BEFORE the throttle plates open..I understand the timing is now against the stop, but plates are open slightly-this is incorrect for proper idle.<br />Did you run across a manual???<br />It's a mandatory item to do a link-n-sync properly if you don't understand the proccess.<br />It's very easy to do if ya have the book in front of ya.

 

[Freezebear]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Yes, got 2 manuals for it. Clymers and Seloc. They both seem straight foreward as far as the whole sync and link and timing adjustments go. I must not be doing something right. Right now my base timing is as far advanced as it will go with the adjuster and the throttle plates are all closed, the mixture needles are all turned 2 1/2turns out, and the thing refuses to idle. I can get it to crank if I give it a little throttle and start it. Must keep RPM above 1000 witht the throttle lever or it will die. Runs good above 1000 just will not run if the throttle is all the way closed, has to be cracked open just a tiny, tiny bit.<br />Please help. I have almost given up hope that I will get to go fishing anytime this summer.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

2-1/2 turns is the starting point, but shouldn't be keeping it from idling.<br />With the engine in neutral, make sure the nylon roller on the throttle arm IS NOT touching the throttle cam.<br />I assume you have done the complete link-n-sync with the throttle and shift cables unhooked from the engine.<br />Does pressing in on the key (choke) do anything noticable?<br />I've ran into several OMC's with the idle timing screw too short to set the timing where it needed to be at idle.<br />How far did you have to move the screw from it's original position after putting things back together????

 

[Freezebear]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Thanks Kenny. Yes it does appear that the idle screw is too short by I guess about 1/4" It is run all the way in and if I move the timerbase just a little I notice a big difference in idle quality and RPM's What causes the screw to suddenly be too short in the one you ran across? Maybe this is all that is wrong now? <br /> No, I do not have the linkages disconnected, book didn't tell me to so I didn't. They do not appear to be interfering with my adjustments though. I think I'm Ok there, but do not know how to set those adjusters. I wanted to ask you about that later, but right now I just want to get the motor running. <br />Yes, pressing the choke does make a difference. It is the only way I can get it to start first. If I press it while running it bogs down and will flood out if I push too much. Motor is smoking very badly after goosing the throttle to about 2500RPM's and returning to idle. So bad you can see the smoke as it twirls around the motor and enters the intake. <br />This is looking more and more like just need to get a new powerhead and be done with it. I hate to spend that much money and still have a problem though.<br />A friend suggested that a bad diaphrahm in the VRO could cause this smoking problem. <br />You know I read on here that BOAT stands for Bring Out Another Thousand. I do believe that is true. <br />Again thanks everyone for helping me through this. Will wait until I get a longer screw and new thermostat before even going in my backyard and looking at my poor boat.

 

[Freezebear]

Re: Case Leak on 60HP

Ok, I got her out on the water today. Things look good. Was able to get motor to idle perfectly with a longer screw and new thermostat. Set needles at 2 1/2 turns out and ran her on the hose for about 30 minutes last night. Took her up river and at a slower pace around 4000-5000Rpm. Took her into a pond and tied up to a tree and let her idle in reverse while I set the mixture needles. Currently it runs smoothest at about 2 1/4 - 2 turns out. I hold the throttle at 2000 RPM for 15seconds and let go and it dies down quickly and returns to an idle. Ran it around for about 2 hours just easing in and out of the gas and a little 5800 RPM operation in spurts. She seems very peppy and throttle response is better than it has ever been. Was a very fun ride <br />Now everything seems Ok, I do have several concerns/questions.<br />1) I notice temperature runs hotter at 2000-4200RPMs. It will run up to 3/4 gauge. If I cruise at 5000 it runs between 1/2 and 3/4gauge. If I run 5000-5800RPMs it runs at 1/2 gauge. At idle it will cool down to 1/4 gauge. Is this OK? What causes it to run so hot at these slower speeds? I am concerned because sometimes it gets rough out there and I don't want to run 5000 RPMs for a few miles. I may need to run at 2000-4000 for rougher water. <br />2) My other concern is engine noises. At idle it sounds just like a sewing machine. Kinda like chitty, chitty, chitty, but idle RPM is constant. At higher RPM, I hear a real faint whirring noise. I can't tell if it's the motor or not. I just don't want to take chances of it blowing up and leaving me offshore, so I'm gonna run it a few times this week after work to build up confidence in it. <br />3) Another noise I hear is after I shut it off. About 5-10 seconds after shutdown, I hear a solenoid type click near the VRO. It is disconnected so it shouldn't be it. Any ideas?<br />And once again, I want to thank everyone for the help and advice given. Without ya'll here watching my back, I probably never would have done this job. Much Thanks!