1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

ophillys

Cadet
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
14
I need help in identifying and selling a set of antique outboard engines. I was told that my Evinrude is an original 1909 outboard row boat motor from the Granddaughter of an employee of Ole Evinrude.. Cannot find pictures of this exact one anywhere on the net or in books..I am selling it and wanted some info on where to look for info or help in identifying that it is what it is. I also have a Johnson model# A9458. Same thing..don't know year and don't know the history of that one. I can provide anyone with pics as long as I get an email for them. ophillys@verizon.net Thanks for looking, Chris :eek:
 

CATransplant

Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

Oh, could be, but very unlikely. Just about every pre-1920 Evinrude has a story like that, and most of them are bogus. No doubt you have an early Evinrude rowboat motor. There are lots of them out there. Whether yours is one of the very first models is a matter of some question.<br /><br />To start with, give us all the words and number you can find on that outboard, and post a photo here so those with an interest in antique outboards can see it.<br /><br />As for your Johnson, that number is a serial number, not a model number, I believe. Again, give us all the information you can find and we might be able to help.<br /><br />Finally, you can't sell things here on iboats. You might try the classified ads on aomci.org, the antique outboard club's website. Now, they know these old motors like the backs of their hands, and will let you know the truth if you give them the right info.
 

alden135

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
1,770
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

Pardon CaTransplant if I may, you can sell things on iboats. They can be listed in the Thrifties or Boat Classifieds for a small fee. :)
 

CATransplant

Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

Yes, but not in the forums, which is what I meant. I guess I'll have to be more precise. I though that "here on iboats" was adequate.
 

ophillys

Cadet
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
14
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

It doesn't appear to have any number but an 8 on a few of the parts..no visible stickers..does have a spark plug made by I.S.P. Co.in Elmira, N.Y. called the "neverskip more spark spark plug" in which there is nothing on the web showing that a company with that name ever existed. I can't find any comparable pictures on the net...How do you post pics here..I did not know you can't list things here but I wasn't listing a price, just to see if someone is looking for old motors..
 

alden135

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
Messages
1,770
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

What I'd like to know is if we do list something w/iboats Thrifties can it ever be mentioned in a forum? Say for example some member needed a hard to find part that iboats dosn't sell but we had/or new of one listed in the thrifties etc.?<br /><br />Sure would like to see a pic posted of that old evinrude.
 

ophillys

Cadet
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
14
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

CA Transplant...I sent you pics on your real estate email..see if you got them..Thanks
 

CATransplant

Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

What does it say on the flywheel, or anywhere else on the motor? Words, numbers, anything. <br /><br />You see, I'm not saying you don't have a 1909 outboard made by Ole. It's very unlikely. Actually, from what I understand, he only made 12 that year.<br /><br />I haven't been able to find but a single photo of a 1909, and that was an old photo, so there can't be many out there, if any.<br /><br />You need to go to the aomci.org site and post something there. Those guys know their stuff, and can tell you what to look for.<br /><br />If it does happen to be a 1909 model, you'll have a ready market, but you're going to have to prove that it is a 1909 model. The oldest one I know of in the club is a 1913, so you can believe that an original 1909 would be hightly sought after.<br /><br />Just don't get your hopes up. There were tons of the first models made and a lot of them are out there in private hands. They all look remarkably alike, so it's very technical to identify the exact year on these early engines. I guess Ole and those guys weren't thinking about a collector's market back then.<br /><br />The AOMCI.ORG site will give you some ideas.
 

ophillys

Cadet
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
14
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

Been there and they all seem to be away at a convention of sorts..This is on it's original stand with an "OE" carved very small on the back of the rickety old wood planks.. It has no marks but the parts with the number "8" on them..Found 2 "8"'s...Look at his history all over the net and they all say he made 25 of them not thinking he was mass producing them. They were built for his buddies to see eachother easier by putting them on row boats and driving them instead of cars. His wife made him start mass producing them.
 

CATransplant

Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

OK, how did you come by this outboard? I've read several things about Ole Evinrude, and all say different things about how many he made in 1909, and about his wife, etc. <br /><br />There's some truth and some myth in all the stories, to tell the truth. I've talked to half a dozen people who told me that their grandmother lived across the lake from Ole. All of them had one of his first outboards...they thought. None of them did. In fact, none of them had one earlier than 1920. It's an old, old story, and old stories tend to get more interesting the older they are.<br /><br />The provenance of this outboard is going to be very important. Where you got it. Who you got it from. All of that stuff. Any documents you might have about it.<br /><br />See, the burden's on you, really, to prove that what you have is one of those first outboards. Few have ever seen one...maybe nobody.<br /><br />Carvings on stands are meaningless. Anyone can carve OE on a stand at any time. There are lots of people out there with old outboards who do all sorts of things to try to sell them. <br /><br />So the story behind yours is important. If you bought it from someone, based on their statement that it is what you say it is, then I'd be really, really skeptical. Lots of folks have bought such things.<br /><br />In fact, it's very possible that it's not even an Evinrude-made outboard at all. There were dozens of folks making a few outboards that copied Ole's design. Any decent machinist could do it, once they had one to examine. These are valuable, too, but they're not Evinrudes.<br /><br />I don't mean to pop your balloon, but you have no idea how many stories like yours there are out there. If you bought this from someone, it's almost certain that it's not what you think. <br /><br />If you got it from a relative who actually can trace its history back to another relative who lived near Ole back then, you might have a better chance.<br /><br />Quite frankly, anyone who actually had one of Ole's first run of rowboat motors, and could show the provenance, would not be selling it to an individual. It would be in an auction somewhere, selling for way more than you can imagine. BRP would be very interested in acquiring it. So would some very wealthy folks who collect old technology.<br /><br />That's why it's so unlikely that this is what you think it is. I hope I'm wrong, for your sake, but I doubt it very much.
 

ophillys

Cadet
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
14
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

I love people like this that don't listen to a word you said. <br />I SENT YOU PICTURES and not a word about them..this is what I am talking about when people have so much to say about someone elses possibilities but don't look at the question..HAVE YOU SEEN A PICTURE OF A REAL ONE AND IS MINE LIKE IT. That is all I am asking..Is there a picture out there of one? <br />Don't second guess my luck, here is what happens in my life..cut and paste this link below in your address bar..All who read this, you won't second guess my intentions after you read this.<br /> http://sptimes.com/2005/05/11/Northpinellas/A_Civil_War_era_horn_.shtml <br />I did Dave Letterman, CBS EARLY Show, Antique Roadshow and was in every national publcation all of May and June of this year. This is just one example of what happens in my life.<br />I do not collect things, I just acquire them. You can hear all the "Grandmother" stories you want but I have one 62 year old lady I have spent the last 2 weeks with, that was handed all original, authentic, ancient, limited edition, etc. items scattered all through her house that were left to her from her Father and grandfather. She was getting rid of this stuff because she saw the articles in the newspapers. Now, I have documented, researched and just plain know the items she has are authentic. This one I am having trouble finding. There is a reason for it. Maybe because it IS what it is. She has Thomas Jeffersons mini secretary with his name inscribed on it that use to be in the Smithsonian when it burned down. It is already know that she has it. Along with other items. She read the articles and saw a show with me on it and thought I might want some of the stuff. I do.
 

CATransplant

Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

OK, I missed your photo. I'm going to post it here so everyone can see it:<br /><br />
oldevinrude.jpg
<br /><br />That's your engine<br /><br />Here's a photo of a 1913 Evinrude. It's the one in the front. Note the rectangular tank:<br /><br />
evinrude_knucklebusters_1913.jpg
<br /><br />All of the early Evinrude motors had a rectangular tank, made up from sheet metal. The motor you have has an aluminum tank, and is much later than 1909. Aluminum tanks didn't appear until the 1920s.<br /><br />You'll also note the flywheel with the knob. All the early evinrudes had this type flywheel, including Ole's first ones. They called them "knucklebusters."<br /><br />Square tank, Knob on flywheel...early Evinrude.<br /><br />Aluminum curved tank, rope start pulley on aluminum flywheel...not early Evinrude. <br /><br />Unless the outboard you're looking at says Evinrude or Elto on the top of the flywheel, it's not even an Evinrude.<br /><br />But...it's from the 1920's, not 1909. Aluminum curved tanks and rope starts are a 1920's thing. Ole never would have done the aluminum thing in his workshop, you see. It was much easier to braze up a rectangular tank out of sheet metal.<br /><br />Sorry. You may have expertise in many areas, but this is most definitely not a 1909 handmade Ole Evinrude motor. It's a very rusty '20's motor of dubious manufacture. If it were a '20's with an Evinrude heritage, you'd find that information on the top of the flywheel, with a model number and a serial number.<br /><br />I don't know what you have, but it's not what you think.
 

CATransplant

Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

Interesting story about the tuba. I had a three-valve civil war era tuba, but with no maker's name. Bought it in an antique shop in Maryland, where it was being used as a flower pot.<br /><br />Sold it a few years ago for $400. Interesting. Bought a very early one-tube radio with the $400. Sold it last year for $1200. Lots of interesting stuff out there.
 

CATransplant

Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

Here is the only photo I have been able to find of a 1909 Evinrude outboard. It's an old photo, and it's the one on the left, up high.<br /><br />As you can see, it looks nothing like yours:<br /><br />
P00880010100200.jpg
 

Chinewalker

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
8,902
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

Okay, I actually OWN a documented, serial numbered (#790) 1909 Evinrude and yours looks nothing like it. Your motor (top photo in CAT's post) is a Lockwood Ash, c. late 19-teens, early 1920s. The Lockwood Ash motors had no notch in the flywheel for the rope start, and they had the ornate curved flywheel casting as pictured in CAT's first photo. Sorry, but it's not an Evinrude, nor is it form 1909...<br /><br />- Scott
 

Chinewalker

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
8,902
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

Incidently - the Lockwood-Ash eventually dropped the "Ash" from the name and became Lockwood, which in turn after the Crash of 1929 was eventually swallowed up into OMC, which at that time stood for Outboard Motors Corporation. It included Evinrude, Johnson, Lockwood and ELTO (a second firm begun by Ole Evinrude in 1920-1921). Lockwood didn't survive the 1930s...<br />Your L-A motors is fairly rare and certainly doesn't qualify for boat anchor status even though it doesn't have the pedigree that a first-year Evinrude might... Still a very nice find in its own right!<br />- Scott
 

ophillys

Cadet
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
14
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

Now that's what I'm talking about...you guys are really good.. All 2 weeks of asking and asking and I finally found some real good info to start with..This site is awesome and so are all who have written so far.
 

CATransplant

Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
6,319
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

You'll find the answers here on the iboats forum. Sometimes it takes us a while to get to the bottom of the question. I'm sorry I missed the photo the first time, but once I saw it, I could at least eliminate the 1909 Evinrude firmly.<br /><br />Chinewalker has the hot scoop on this. I knew what it was NOT. He knew what it WAS.<br /><br />It's like the old story. Me and my brother know the answer to every question. What was your question? Oh...that...my brother knows the answer to that question, but he's traveling today to Ethiopia and isn't available right now. :D
 

ophillys

Cadet
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
14
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

Got it started...purrrrrs a little...now to disassemble just the top to see how the magneto and such are...someone said the they have a book on all Lockwood ashs' but this one isn't there. they said a good resemblence but it isn't it. Here we go...The great mystery, huh? I wish..I was in 7th Heaven when I started out today, but man you guys put me in my place..Can't mess with the big boys..Off to check deeper. There was a number on the mounting bracket that read 3171 and one more when I pulled the rope retainer(on the bottom of the top plate) that read 2057...??? Who knows?
 

Basscat 1

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
444
Re: 1909 Evinrude 1 of 25

Interesting thread. That thing actually started?
 
Top