10% alcohol in fuel

[Merc4ever]

What's a boater to do with the 10 % alcohol we have at most gas stations now?

I've been told it eats hoses, the seals in my carb...

I've added Seafoam but I believe that it's made from alcohol will it still help?

What is the best thing we can do to protect ourself?

 

[Don S]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

Moving to Non-Repair I/O and Inboards, there are several thread on ethanol fuels.

 

[scipper77]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

There is not much you can do. Find non ethanol gas if you can (I can't) or if you really have components that are not compatible, you will have to replace them.

 

[Merc4ever]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

I heard rumor that the lubricant in seafoam helps neutrilize the harmful effect of the alcohol. I seen at walmart they have a "marine Stabil" formula for gas containing alcohol. Is any of it worth buying or is it all just a gimic?

 

[mpdive]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

What's a boater to do with the 10 % alcohol we have at most gas stations now?

I've been told it eats hoses, the seals in my carb...

I've added Seafoam but I believe that it's made from alcohol will it still help?

What is the best thing we can do to protect ourself?

I just recently changed to non ethanol fuel. Do an internet search for non ethanol fuel in your area and you will find a couple websites dedicated to stations in your area. Keep in mind that when switching over you will be dropping the ethanol content in your tank by the percentage of regular fuel that is added. For example.......If you have a 20 gallon tank that is half full of ehtanol blended fuel and you add 10 gallons of non ethanol to it, you now have 5 percent ethanol. A quarter tank of ethanol to three quarter tank of regular becomes 2.5 percent ethanol etc.... The ability of keeping moisture suspended is now reduced. One gallon of ethanol will keep 4 tablespoons of water in suspension. When reduced the percentage of suspension is dropped. It is also more succeptible to phase seperation especially if you have abrupt climate changes. Add Startron enzyme solution to the tank after you top it off with regular fuel and maintain use for the next half a dozen fillups of non ethanol fuel. The Seafoam is also a great idea. Eventually the Startron will microencapsulate the water in the tank and it will be burned in the combustion process. Ethanol sucks but there are loads of filling stations offering regular fuel.

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

Don't believe all the hype you hear about ethanol. Install a water seperator filter, use Sea Foam and keep on truckin, errr boatin.

 

[mpdive]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

Don't believe all the hype you hear about ethanol. Install a water seperator filter, use Sea Foam and keep on truckin, errr boatin.

Wish that would be true but unless you run a boat everyday like your vehicle, phase separation is a real concern. Alchohol loves water especially in a constant ambient temperature but any temp swings and pandoras box is open.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

Wish that would be true but unless you run a boat everyday like your vehicle, phase separation is a real concern. Alchohol loves water especially in a constant ambient temperature but any temp swings and pandoras box is open.

It's really only a concern if you GET liquid water in your fuel. I pulled my fuel tank after nearly 20 years of running and found NO water in the tank.

I have removed my sender 2 years in a row to siphon out the fuel looking for water and have found none.

Just run fresh fuel, change your filter every year, use a fuel stabilizer like Stabil or others (if it bothers you), read the following article and go boating!!
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_condensation_in_fuel_tanks.htm.

If you have an older boat with a fiberglass tank, cut the tank out and replace it with either a plastic or aluminum one.

If E10 still makes you lose sleep at night, go to http://pure-gas.org/ find yourself a station selling eth-less gas, TEST IT (to verify), because if you lose sleep running E10, you'll lose sleep if you're not ABSOLUTELY SURE it's "eth-less". ...........THEN go boating!!

I am just going to keep running E10 like I have been for the last 5 years or so......I don't use Stabil and I don't use Seasnot or other snake oils......I just use the money I would have spent on that stuff for gas! It seems to make the boat go further!



Regards,


Rick

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

Add stabil or ethanol treatment from Amsoil.
The worst thing is NOT using your boat.Letting the fuel set will allow it to eventually seperate.
I worry about that.
So i don't automatically re-fill anymore.I wait till the day before I use it.Then add the oil(outboards) and treatments and then the gas.It makes me feel beter that the new gas is mixing up the old.
I used to fill it after every use.
Like the others say new filter and go boating a lot.

 

[mpdive]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

It's really only a concern if you GET liquid water in your fuel. I pulled my fuel tank after nearly 20 years of running and found NO water in the tank.

I have removed my sender 2 years in a row to siphon out the fuel looking for water and have found none.

Just run fresh fuel, change your filter every year, use a fuel stabilizer like Stabil or others (if it bothers you), read the following article and go boating!!
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_condensation_in_fuel_tanks.htm.

If you have an older boat with a fiberglass tank, cut the tank out and replace it with either a plastic or aluminum one.

If E10 still makes you lose sleep at night, go to http://pure-gas.org/ find yourself a station selling eth-less gas, TEST IT (to verify), because if you lose sleep running E10, you'll lose sleep if you're not ABSOLUTELY SURE it's "eth-less". ...........THEN go boating!!

I am just going to keep running E10 like I have been for the last 5 years or so......I don't use Stabil and I don't use Seasnot or other snake oils......I just use the money I would have spent on that stuff for gas! It seems to make the boat go further!



Regards,


Rick

If the EPA didn't demand the venting of the tanks then water wouldn't be a problem. But since they do and boats dont utilize closed system emissions, the ethanol will eventually drink up the moisture in the air. Saw a video a little while back where a mechanic took some ethanol in a mason jar and set it on a table. He then set up a fan to blow across the top of the jar. In five minutes there was a noticeable amount of water in the jar. If you have agood system going and using a seperator, keep on doing what your doing. I keep the Startron Enzyme treatment in mine for the piece of mind. Don't forget to use some of the money your saving on some cold ones!
Kind regards
Mike

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

It's not the EPA that demands venting tanks. It's the USCG! If the EPA had anything to do with it we would get check engine lights if the fuel cap was loose!!!

Having never gotten ANY condensation in marine fuel tanks OR aircraft fuel tanks for that matter, I tend to believe the guy in the article..... http://www.yachtsurvey.com/myth_of_condensation_in_fuel_tanks.htm


AND yes I do use the savings for the cold ones!!

 

[StevNimrod]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

Saw a video a little while back where a mechanic took some ethanol in a mason jar and set it on a table. He then set up a fan to blow across the top of the jar. In five minutes there was a noticeable amount of water in the jar.

You mean the video where the guy claimed that the mason jar five feet from a fan approximated what happens at a tank vent while underway? I don't know where to begin poking the obvious holes in that approximation and the scientific value of that "experiment".

People probably mean well, but there is an awful lot of psuedoscience around this issue.

In this economy there's a lot of money to be made if you can convince enough people that $10/month (snake oil) will save a $10,000 investment (engine), even if that investment was "safe" to begin with.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

The Seafoam is also a great idea

Why is it such a great idea? The only thing it has in it that may be slightly useful is some isopropyl alcohol which you can buy way cheaper in products that specialize as a gas drier or just buy plain ole isopropyl.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

Letting the fuel set will allow it to eventually seperate.

Seperate into what? If anything, as time goes by you will actually have less ethanol in your fuel as it will evaporate first. Of course the side affect of that is that your octane will go down as the ethanol does boost the octane.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

"Common sense is not very common"

Yes..... I tend to agree!

 

[bnicov]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

Read up on 'Phase Separation'. Basically it works like this, alcohol and water mix quite nicely, alcohol and gasoline will mix but end up separating over time unless there are some chemicals (ie. Stabil and the like) that help it to stay mixed together. Now, fuel left for a long time on a boat tends to absorb water and we all know that water and gasoline don't mix. The gas rises and you have an alcohol/water mixture on the bottom of the tank and it is the first thing to be picked up and pumped throught the fuel system causing grief. Bottom line, if you run ethanol enhanced fuel, burn it....ahem, I mean go boating and enjoy. Don't leave the fuel in the tank for several months without some sort of fuel stabilizer added to it.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

Read up on 'Phase Separation'. Basically it works like this, alcohol and water mix quite nicely, alcohol and gasoline will mix but end up separating over time unless there are some chemicals (ie. Stabil and the like) .

I am well aware of Phase Seperation and it has nothing to do with gasoline sitting over time. Has everything to do with ethanol getting to its water saturation point. Time has nothing to do with it at all.

 

[mpdive]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

I am well aware of Phase Seperation and it has nothing to do with gasoline sitting over time. Has everything to do with ethanol getting to its water saturation point. Time has nothing to do with it at all.

Actually it's most succeptible to temperature change. It's ability to hold moisture in suspension without phase seperation is directly influenced by temperature swings. Additionally, there are a lot of snake oil additives that contain alchohol which is the last thing you want to add more of. However, Startron Enzyme is a non fuel based product which is worth every penny.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

If you are worried about 5% or 10% ethanol blended fuel, you will drive yourself nuts when 15% arrives, and will likely commit suicide when E85 is mandatory. Golly folks, fill up, treat the fuel and go boating. If you have an older boat, change the fuel hoses to ethanol tolerant types, add the water separating filter and go boating. If the carb gets gunked up, it likely needed rebuilding anyway. Do it and go boating. Been using E10 blended fuel since 1997 with zero issues in new or old outboard motors, weed whackers, tractor, chain saws, blowers and my car sees E85 nearly as much as it sees E10 since E85 is 50 - 70 cents/gallon cheaper and 40 cents/gallon is the break even point because of the difference in fuel economy.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: 10% alcohol in fuel

Actually it's most succeptible to temperature change.

What happened to "time" as being the main problem as you stated before?

Additionally, there are a lot of snake oil additives that contain alchohol which is the last thing you want to add more of.

You are confusing different types of alcohol. Gas driers typically use Isopropyl which doesn't have the same bad properties as Ethanol.

People that have had problems with phase separation are people that are getting water in their fuel from marinas where the water is in the fuel already there or from water being introduced in liquid form to the fuel. Ethanol getting enough water in it from water vapor in the air to cause phase separation is a myth. If you are a trailer boater and get your fuel from the local auto gas station, your chance of having phase separation is almost zero.