10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

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cadet917

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I just tried removing the head from my 10hp sportwin... any suggestion on getting them out? anyone tried the wax trick with luck? 8 of them broke right at the head so i know i will have plenty to work with. The head is also still stuck on the cylinder. i dowsed it in WD-40 so it can soak over night. any trick for getting the unbolted head off? it has to come straight off since the bolts are still filling the holes on the head.
 
samo_ott

samo_ott

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

Geezus, that's bad luck. Is it a salt water engine?

You'll have to gently pry the head off. Then work on getting all the bolts out. Heat, vice grips for the ones sticking out... You'll have to drill out the flush ones... Use left hand thread drill bits if you can. It's not recommended to use EZEE outs as they have a tendancy to break off in the hole and make it worse. Much worse.
 
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cadet917

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

its never been in salt water... but i dont think its ever been apart either.
 
jbjennings

jbjennings

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

samo_ott said:
Geezus, that's bad luck. Is it a salt water engine?

You'll have to gently pry the head off. Then work on getting all the bolts out. Heat, vice grips for the ones sticking out... You'll have to drill out the flush ones... Use left hand thread drill bits if you can. It's not recommended to use EZEE outs as they have a tendancy to break off in the hole and make it worse. Much worse.
Click to expand...

Steve, those EZ outs work so great! Why would you give such advice? With a big enough pack of EZ outs, he could keep up the perfect score and still have all 10 bolts in there, except they would all be bullseye'd with ez out tips. Really, I think it would be quite beautiful.

Sorry, Cadet917, I just couldn't help 2nding Steve's good advice. Whatever you do, don't use EZ outs. I also have found grinding the bolt ends flat and using a center punch to start your drill bit PERfECTLY center is essential. 10 for 10 is bad luck for sure.
Good luck with it,
JBJ
 
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noelm

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

the ones that are still sticking out, try heating the bolt very hot, the heat will travel down into the thread part and might just be enough to loosen them a tad, also try going back and forth just a bit at a time, the ones that are snapped off require a very good quality drill, and a good quality drill operator, good luck! your going to need it with 10 broken.
 
F

F_R

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

noelm said:
the ones that are still sticking out, try heating the bolt very hot, the heat will travel down into the thread part and might just be enough to loosen them a tad, also try going back and forth just a bit at a time, the ones that are snapped off require a very good quality drill, and a good quality drill operator, good luck! your going to need it with 10 broken.
Click to expand...

cadet, why in the world did you keep breaking them off after the first couple? Sorry.

You will be lucky to get that head off in one piece now.
 
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jonesg

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

Heres what machine shops do , it works very nicely.

place a nut over the broken stud, not zinc or stainless nuts.
With a mig build a pool on top of the broken stud til it fills the nut threads.
let it cool and unscrew it ( it WILL come out now).
Usually the bolts will come out by hand due to the heat from the welder.

why it works,

In order for the welding current to reach the welder anode it must pass through the bolt threads, the corrosion is resistance and it gets burned off and turned to ash.

ez outs are death to cylinder heads.

if you lack a mig, harbour freight has migs for $109 , try the lower setting first then crank it up if need be,
 
lowkee

lowkee

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

Lesson learned on that one, eh? After the first broken bolt it is time to find a new approach, not repeat the nonworking one nine times :(

The weld a nut to the top of the bolt method has worked for me in the past. It sounds as if you just tried a normal wrench. Use an impact gun (air preferred) Once you get the non-flush bolts out you can remove the head and repeat the weld technique on the flush ones. PB blaster is alsways a good thing, as well, just don't inhale it while welding (it will smoke some yummy fumes).
 
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cadet917

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

i do have a 135 amp lincoln welder so ill try that. id prefer to get the head if first if i could tho. i think i will replace the bolts with studs and cap nuts if i get these all out.
 
W

wellsc1

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

I'll second a couple things.

1 - PB Blaster works for me when everything else has failed. It's great stuff and I'm glad Walmart sells it for less than marina's do. Be sure to let it set for a few minutes.

2 - EX outs have snapped on me before, so I use them with extreme caution. Something like siezed head bolts are not a job for EZ outs. Using an impact driver makes for "shock and awe" results. Nothing like a hammer and a wrench working together in perfect harmony!

I like the welded bolt technique. The heat on the PB Blaster (and ozidized threads), coupled with the impact driver should do the trick.:)

Careful center punching the flush bolts to avoid expanding the bolt harder into the hole.
 
SKEETR

SKEETR

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

Just as a precaution, you may want to cut your losses and pull all ignition components from the motor before sending 135amps thru the block.
 
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jonesg

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

Its not a cast iron engine block so build the weld puddle gradually.
 
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cadet917

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

im worried that welding a nut on will result in the bolt being welded to the head since some of them are slightly recessed into the head. or will this be fine since the head is aluminum?
 
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tx1961whaler

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

cadet917 said:
im worried that welding a nut on will result in the bolt being welded to the head since some of them are slightly recessed into the head. or will this be fine since the head is aluminum?
Click to expand...

You can't weld the recessed ones. The head needs to come off of there first. That's why F_R made the comment that you will be lucky to get the head off in one piece. What I would do, while shopping for a new head on ebay, is take a block of wood, and a heavy hammer, and try to loosen up the head so you can get it off. Don't hit the head with the hammer or the head will break. Hit the wood block. Once (if) it loosens, then use several wooden wedges to try to move it out evenly. Don't use a metal prybar or screwdriver, or you'll need a new powerhead.

The other option is to center punch the bolt and start drilling with a cobalt bit and cutting fluid.
 
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cadet917

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

if i heated the broken bolts would it make removal easier? would it burn off the corrosion or allow the bolt holes in the head to expand a bit?
 
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cadet917

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

the engine does run... could i fire it up and maybe the head will blow off? i am really not willing to break into this project. the head is unbelievably frozen on here. ive rebuild tons of saltwater jetski engines and have never seen anything like this. i tried the wood block thing after the gasket soaked with wd-40 overnight. maybe i will submerge the head of the engine in a litter box full of gas?
 
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noelm

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

Jesus you are getting desperate when you start saying "blow the head off" I reckon that would be my very last option, keep at it with all the miracle sprays, apply some heat to the head near the studs, gentle heat, not an oxy torch and just keep at it. You only weld nuts on the longer studs once the head is off, do not try to weld to anything that is snapped flush.
 
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tx1961whaler

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

cadet917 said:
the engine does run... could i fire it up and maybe the head will blow off? i am really not willing to break into this project. the head is unbelievably frozen on here. ive rebuild tons of saltwater jetski engines and have never seen anything like this. i tried the wood block thing after the gasket soaked with wd-40 overnight. maybe i will submerge the head of the engine in a litter box full of gas?
Click to expand...

If you're going to soak it, use a 50-50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone, preferably outside
 
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cadet917

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Re: 10 out of 10 head bolts broke off!

im just gonna soak it for a week or so then try to fire it up... trying to tap it off is useless since the bolts are all still in there hindering it from rocking its way off... or i may just fabricate a puller to go into the spark plug holes.
 
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