115hp Johnson 1976 etl

[newtong_ware]

I am stumped.<br /><br />rebuilt carbs, have fuel flow, plugs are getting wet from fuel. found some trash at the float seat that was probably causing the rough running(surging). Yeah, you guys were right, rebuild the carbs...<br /><br />I have good spark at the plugs, the coil high and low impedance checks. <br /><br />i did put in a new key switch and safety kill switch, but they sure look right. The black yellow wire is grounded when the switch is off and/or if the safety kill switch tether is pulled. Other wise high impedance to ground. I even disconnected the black/yellow wire at the power pack, but still no good.<br /><br />It all looks right, but the engine won't start.<br /><br />Any suggestions folks?<br /><br />compression is good on all cylinders, although one is a little weak.

 

[JB]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

Have you confirmed that the flywheel key is not sheared and that the sparks are occurring at the right time? What Service Manual are you using?<br /><br />When you do major work on several different systems at one time without testing each in turn you often create new and/or additional problems.<br /><br />One problem with a post like this is that to understand the whole picture a helper has to go search for your previous post to get the history.<br /><br />It would probably work better to continue your original thread rather than start a new one.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[newtong_ware]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

Originally posted by JB:<br /> Have you confirmed that the flywheel key is not sheared and that the sparks are occurring at the right time? What Service Manual are you using?<br /><br />When you do major work on several different systems at one time without testing each in turn you often create new and/or additional problems.<br /><br />One problem with a post like this is that to understand the whole picture a helper has to go search for your previous post to get the history.<br /><br />It would probably work better to continue your original thread rather than start a new one.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[newtong_ware]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

Thanks for the help, I think I just got it though. <br />I used a bit of starting fluid and got it to hit. a few more turns and it started and ran sweet. Multiple shut downs and re-starts and no problem. Is it possible that the fuel pump just wasn't strong enough to get it done without actually running? Maybe just priming to a critical point?<br /><br />I've been working on mechanical devices for years but just started on outboards and it is a whole 'nuther world.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

newtong....Bad idea to use starting fluid, it has no lubrication in it and you end up running the cylinders dry, it also washes away any oil that is there. They do sell starting fluid now with lubricant in it, but it's best to just use some premix. Is your choke working properly? If starting fluid got it running and it continued to start after it was hot, then you have something wrong that's keeping it from starting when cold.

 

[newtong_ware]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

I'm letting it cool down and will check after is is cold. The choke appears to be working normal. I had rebuilt the carbs and the unit had set idle for some time with no fuel in the system. It had been pretty cool here the last few days and I just wonder if it was a fuel pump related issue.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

whats you starting procedure???<br /><br />step by step<br /><br /><br />may be your starting procedure doesnt work.<br /><br />it happens.<br /><br />keep the key pushed in while starting the engine.<br />till it fires.<br /><br />starting fluid is bad news get a spraybottle and pour premix in there works better than starting fluid and better for the powerhead .<br /><br />how low is the low compression cylinder? compared to the highest.

 

[newtong_ware]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

I pump the primer bulb till it's hard<br />raise the warmup lever to the start position<br />push in the key to activate the choke and turn for 5-10 seconds.<br /><br />I have been letting off the choke after a few turns for fear of flooding the engine. Keep it choked until it fires you say?<br /><br />I've been cautioned about turning the motor for too long and over heating the starter. How long is too long?<br /><br />The lower port cylinder was about 7psi lighter than the other three. It was a few weeks back when I checked, I want to say they were around 105, but I would want to check again before swearing to it.

 

[OBJ]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

Crank the engine until it fires or starts. Once that happens and all other things being correct, it should fire up.<br /><br />Compression sounds good. 105psi and all cylinders are within 10 to 15% is......good...

 

[reeldutch]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

compression doe sound good as long as they are not more than 15psi difference and not lower than 100.<br />in general.<br /><br />starting procedure sounds good.<br />dont run the starter moter longer then 15 sec.<br />wich is realy long<br /><br />if it doesnt fire in 15 seconds check for fuel or spark.<br /><br />check spark gap.<br /><br />check for strong bleu spark<br /><br />good luck

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

I think the starting fluid gives it away. Make sure the choke flaps close 100% tight - 99 & 94/100ths won't do it. You may have to move the choke solenoid a little to make this so.<br /><br />For some reason the late60s/mid70s V4s are finicky that way. Perhaps why they put outright primer sprayers on the later V4s. <br /><br />Also, move the cold start throttle, on the control box, all the way forward. If you're like me & you hate to rev a cold motor much, just back it off as soon as she catches.

 

[newtong_ware]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

Thanks for the info. I do hate to rev a cold motor, and when she does catch she runs great.<br /><br />I'll have to check those choke plates. It is just the first time to crank after setting a while that is a pain. Once she cranks and runs, even for a few seconds, then after that she cranks right up. Has to warm a little before she'll idle at lowest setting but after a minute or so, no problem there.<br /><br />My next question is about water pumps, and I do have a Seloc manual. I just am not confidant that it is working right. Should I start a new topic for that? How do I know for sure? The hoses at the back of the powerhead don't seem to have water running through them and I have water coming out at seams where lower unit mates to upper and at a little whole on the front of the lower unit. I just drained and refilled the lower unit and the oil was definitely used, but not horrible or milky. Only a very little bit of grit on the magnetic tip on the drain plug.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

If you push the fast idle lever all the way, it can sometimes start to bring the choke plates off of their seats and open them up, depending on what kind of binnacle you have. I'm assuming you have the cover off of the carbs, look and see at what point the choke plates start to open with the fast idle lever and don't push up to where the choke opens when trying to start. Once they start to open you lose all of your choke effect. That engine should have a manual choke lever right at the carbs also, check to make sure it's on Automatic, I'm sure you've done that already. I have the exact same motor, and I actually find it easier to start using no fast idle. Just pump the primer up good and hard, and crank with the choke engaged, don't let the choke off until it starts. Once it starts to sputter over, us the fast idle lever a little to bring it up in RPM, you just have to be ready at the fast idle lever to keep it running, but mine starts every time when ice cold this way. In the summer I don't even need the fast idle lever, just prime, choke and it starts right up.

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

The water pump is important. Dirty carbs & blown impellers are the leading causes of death for old V4s. OMCs have real strong impellers (you should see the POS on Merc 50s) but if you don't know when the impeller was last changed, you ought to put that on your to-do-soon list. If you've got to use the boat in the meantime, at least check that your hot horn works. <br /><br />When warmed up, the cylinders should be hot enough that you can leave your fingers on them for 2-3 seconds. I think the thermostat's at about 140 degrees F. There's no telltale on that motor. However, if you pull an end off one of those back hoses, there should definitely be water coming out, and the powerhead should cool off to about the temp of the lake you're running in. The water coming out of the seam you describe is normal (the whole midsection is a water jacket that fills up, keeps the inner exhaust pipe cool). <br /><br />The lower unit fluid sounds fine. Did you put new gaskets on the drain screws? Common source of leaks.

 

[newtong_ware]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

Now I'm concerned about no water from the black hoses. How do I check the hot horn and where is the thermostat. Also, if all I am doing is changing the water pump, do I have to dissasemble the propeller? I bought a Seloc manual and I am thinking an OEM manual would have been better right now. I am actually pretty darned technical, but being technical means I don't like to just dig in and hope it works out alright. I got over that a few years ago, and I spend less money correcting mistakes now.<br /><br />To you and all of the other folks who have responded, thanks so much.

 

[OBJ]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

OEM manuals have specific info for your engine newtong. Generics have there place but you can't beat on OEM manual for the info you need.<br /><br />Look on each head and you will see a tan wire coming from each. This is the lead from the overheat sensor. Each lead will have a black boot on it covering the knife connector. <br /><br />Pull the boot back (either one) to expose the connector. With the key in the "ON" position, ground the knife connector to a clean engine ground. The alarm horn should sound a continuous tone. Do the test with both connectors.<br /><br />Be aware that this test will only check the wiring to the horn an the horn itself. It does NOT check the overheat sensor. The sensor must be removed from the head to check it.<br /><br />The t-stat housing is below the exhaust housing on the rear of the engine. The housing is "T" shape with a hose going to both heads.<br /><br />To change the impeller, you will need to drop the lower unit.

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

Newt, on your older V4 there'll be just one temp sensor, on the starboard head. <br /><br />On the back (stern) of the motor, there should be a hose running from each of the heads, to a block down on the very bottom back (stern) of the powerhead. These two hoses are about as big around as your thumb, and usually black. If you pull one of these hoses, there should be water coming out of the head, whenever the motor is running. If there is no water coming out (give it a few seconds to be sure), you defintely have a problem and should not be using the boat. Post back if that's the case. <br /><br />By the way, NEVER run the motor out of the water, even for a few seconds - you WILL burn out the water pump impeller. <br /><br />On those older V4s, it's usually easier to remove the carbs, in order to get to the shift connector so you can remove the lower unit.

 

[newtong_ware]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

OK guys, here's the deal. I would never run the boat out of water, but I did buy it used. I am using a big plastic storage container for a test tank. I was afraid to run the motor over idle even in the tank and then only for a few seconds to check for flow from the hoses. I did not know if these hoses were supply or return lines. I'm really a pretty decent tech on stuff I know, but I am new to working on outboards and I know mistakes cost money.<br /><br />I did not see any water flow from the hoses. The guy I bought the boat from had just had the water pump worked on just before I got it. He told me he and his dad had replaced the pump, but did not get something right, so he carried it to a mechanic who re-did it. I have put a few hours on the boat and other than a carb problem it ran pretty good.<br /><br />I am getting it ready for the season and I want it right. It's lonely out there when you're way back in the boonies and the prop won't turn, ya know.<br /><br />I assume the engine temp alarm is a thermoswitch, probably normally open. And so it should close providing a ground to complete the circuit through the horn when the temp gets too high. Any idea of the temp it should close at?<br /><br />I think I am going to invest in an improved water pump and thermostat just cause I want to know it's right. Other than the tricky linkage under the lower carb,(I'll probably just pull them out of the way), anything else I need to know about dropping and re-installing the lower unit? Do I have to take the prop off and all of that just to replace the water pump? Any other seals and such that makes sense to take care of while I am in there?<br /><br />And by the way, thanks again to you and all of the other folks who have responded to my posts. This is a great forum and I hope someday I'll be able to contribute rather than just ask for help!

 

[McGR]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

Your water pump will be the older 2 tube style. When you pull the lower unit you will notice 2 copper tubes that mate with the waterpump housing. On those tubes or possibly still stuck to the water pump are two clear/translucent peices of tubing about 3" long and about 3/4" diameter. These parts are important, don't lose them. These tubes are used to guide the copper tubes back into the pump housing. When you have installed your new pump these tubes are to be pressed into the pump housing so the copper tubes slide into the correct position during reinstallation of the lower unit.<br /><br />The temperature sender is just a simple bimetal thermal switch that completes the alarm circuit to ground at some pre-determined temperature... I'm not sure exactly what it is. If you have a heat gun or other similar heat source and an Ohm meter you can perform a quick and dirty test by removing the sensor and heating it up until it activates. If you want to check the alarm just jump or touch the lead that goes to the sensor to ground and the alarm should sound (with the key switch on).<br /><br />Also, you don't necessarily have to remove the prop, though it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to pull it off and give the splines some fresh grease.

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: 115hp Johnson 1976 etl

If you're running in a tank, the motor has to be in the water several inches deeper than that seam between the LU & midsection, in order for the pump to prime. The pump sits up on top of the LU, above the seam. I found this out the hard way - burned out pumps on an Ev125, a Merc65 and a Johnson9.5 before I figured it out.