1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

[bob johnson]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

post the model number when you get a chance..

bob

 

[omcdolt]

Engine Running conditions as of 5/10

Engine Running conditions as of 5/10

Its an E115TLESB
Now for a clearer update.
This is the running condition of the motor:
Starts first try, within 3 cranks, choked with fast idle lever all the way up.
When it starts it revs high quickly, and fast idle must be brought all the way down slowly.
Idles fairly smooth, with a miss and "jump" every 3 to 5 seconds. Some variation in idle occurs, and it doesnt seem to want to return to full low idle, without me physically pressing the throttle linkages full close. Adjusting the barrel adjuster on the throttle cable doesnt seem to have much effect on this.
At any higher rpm, the miss consistently hits every 2-3 seconds, gaining in intensity with RPM. However this is hard to test without a tank trying to keep the rpm low.

At this point i have:
Changed plugs, cleaned plug lead ends, ensured leads are fully seated, and adjusted throttle so that it can be returned to near 0 throttle by the controls (when i got it, it would rev high and wouldnt come down untill i manually shut the linkages down)
Compressions are as follows:
Port top: 110
Port bottom: 90
Top starbord: 70
Bottom starbord:90

This morning i decided to put the BRP/Johnson tune up in a can (seafoamy stuff) in. I injected the full can at high idle through the fuel pumps primer port, and it began smoking shortly after starting the injection. I will leave it sit untill tomorrow morning around 9AM (about 20 hours) the can recommends 3-16 but there is no way i can clear it out in 16, as itd be the middle of the night in a crowded neighborhood, and i want the stuff to stay in as long as safely possible.

Ive bought new johnson leads for the plugs today, however i dont want to install them untill i know it might be electrical. The oem johnson leads were expensive at 14 bucks a piece. I have not yet done a gap test.

So if im not mistaken, the things to check at this point that remain are:
leaking head gasket.
Scored cyll.
Spark gap test. for leads and coils
Carburetor syncronization.
Timing

If the compression doesnt come up enough after decarbonizing i plan to replace the head-gaskets and while i have it apart check for a damaged piston/cyll. If it is within REASON, meaning its lightly scored, and doesnt show major gaulling or deep scrapes/fragments of metal in the cyll, i plan to put it back together with new gaskets. Im noticing fuel/oil mixture around my plug holes at the head cover areas on the port bank. Im gonna clean this area and run it and get a better idea of where it might be coming from.

Now my question still remains about the water leak in the lower unit.
About 4" back from the rearmost bolts holding the lower unit up, there is water squirting from the seam, above anything but idle rpm. Is this a seal that can be replaced when i have the lower unit off to do the water pump?
Also i have the aftermarket service book for my motor, but i dont know what kind of shifting mechanism mine is. Im assuming its mechanical/hydro assist but im not sure of it. Am i correct? Anything i need to specifically be careful of when removing the lower unit?

Finally, I am aware of how to check timing, however i do not know how its adjusted and tuned on these motors. My book is not the clearest on timing adjustment. Any reference materials you can point me to?

I know this is alot of technical details, but i just dont have the cash to pay a shop to do this, and im trying to bail myself out of a bad boat buy here...
Thanks again for everyones help and input

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Engine Running conditions as of 5/10

Re: Engine Running conditions as of 5/10

Its an E115TLESB
Now my question still remains about the water leak in the lower unit.
About 4" back from the rearmost bolts holding the lower unit up, there is water squirting from the seam, above anything but idle rpm. Is this a seal that can be replaced when i have the lower unit off to do the water pump?
Also i have the aftermarket service book for my motor, but i dont know what kind of shifting mechanism mine is. Im assuming its mechanical/hydro assist but im not sure of it. Am i correct? Anything i need to specifically be careful of when removing the lower unit?

Water coming from parting line between LU and midsection is normal, as is water from any of the drain holes. That seam is not sealed and the mid-section has water well above that line when running. Not to worry.

Shifting is mechanical for your motor. When removing the LU and while removed, don't rotate the shift shaft, or you will change it's effective length, since it is threaded on the lower end. Other than leaving a couple of bolts in while you undo the others so the LU doesn't just drop, nothing special. Follow the OEM shop manual or instructions packed with the OEM water pump kit for adhesive and lube instructions, especially for the fastener threads if you ever want to drop the LU again in the future.

Recheck compression after the decarb treatment to see if the low hole comes up at all. If itr does, but not high enough, repeat the decarb.

 

[omcdolt]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

Ok so we had a fun day today with the boat.
Started it up in the pals driveway with the muffs hooked up. fired up first crank and spit a plume of white smoke the size of a freight ship out the prop.
I took this as a good sign
It idled smoothly, with very little misfire/hiccups, and revved (low rpm) smoothly. I was feeling good, so we took the boat through the inspection lane to get the trailer tagged, passed, got the tag in a record 15 min without waiting in line at the dmv. Day is going even better. We get ballsy and decide, hell lets put it in the water and do some sea trials with the motor and shifting... We run to walmart and grab a letter/number kit and quickly peel off the MD stuff and put new DE stuff on, registration sticker in hand, we finished that job in a jiff. Feeling great.
Make an uneventful, smooth trip to the ramp on the christiana river.
Stop well ahead of the ramp and prep the boat, REMOVE TIE DOWNS, put the electronics in place, primed the motors fuel line, checked electronics and did a quick once over, installing drain plug. Feeling confident. Back the trailer to the ramp and down, my pal guiding me from the side of the ramp, when i hear him holler "woah" while indicating i need to turn the trailer a different direction. Upon hearing "woah" i bring the boat to a quick stop... As i look in the rear view, i see the UNTETHERED bow of my boat, sliding away, and then tipping sharply into the air with an enormous THUD....
Lesson learned? Make sure you check the bow cable YOURSELF after you ask the buddy to take the transom tie downs off...
Luckily due to the dual layer construction of my keel and transom, only the first layer in a 2" area of the keel where it meets the transom, was crushed by the ramp. I assesed the damage after hauling the boat back up onto the trailer, looking for anywhere water could intrude on the hull, and to my suprise, there was no place for the water to go. I made the decision to continue on, since i didnt come this far for nothing!
Motor started up first crank, got out about 20 feet from the dock to find when i put it in reverse, the motor stalled. I hastily tried to start, forgetting to choke it again, and then proceeded to try and start the doggy motor for 20 minutes as we drifted downstream. Once she started however...it ran like a top. i adjusted the too low idle speed up to a reasonable level and we proceeded to make short passes in front of the ramp. Smooth, no misfires, and no issues.
All in all im a happy camper and im very thankful for all the advice given here. Thanks to each and every one of you.
As for the damage, ive picked up supplies already to do the repairs in the morning once things dry out a bit.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

you know you got to post the compression readings now...after the decarb....

so we all know if that worked or not...

pictures...we love pictures....

I have a 1995 115 and I dont have water coming out all the creases in my lower unit...

I cant help but think you dont have the tube shoots lined up very good...

I am not sure, but i also have a hard time thinking that the water in the exhaust is being forced out your joints..it has to be the water leavign the water pump!!!...thus all the pressure that is squirting out your joinst SHOULD be going to the heads!!


bob

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

Bob, when the motor is on the muffs, water is way up in the midsection and leaks from wherever it can escape.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

Bob, when the motor is on the muffs, water is way up in the midsection and leaks from wherever it can escape.

what happens when you are in the water?????


in normal use water is SUCKED into the water intake..and as such is pulled in a direct route towards the side of low pressure( water pump)

when you use a hose and muffs you are FORCING water in there and you could be pushing it up all around inside the housing cavity...

maybe you ahve a lot more garden hose pressure than me!!

bob

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

When running on the hose, you must keep the pump flooded or you'll damage the pump (and maybe the motor). Completely normal for water to come out of every opening and it does. But you're not forcing water into the pump. Gravity does it. I never go light on the water, but I don't have particularly high water pressure either.

When you're in the water at speed, cooling water is dumped from the prop hub, which is where most escapes. On the hose, it (cooling water) also exits there, but any excess comes out wherever it can (drain holes, LU parting line, etc.)

 

[omcdolt]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

Im gonna change the lower unit oil tomorrow, will see the condition of the fluid, will post results.
Ill post compression readings tomorrow when i take them lol.
I plan to do the water pump impeller and t-stats soon, so ill look into the leaky lower unit seam when i do that.
pics...well id have probably shot anyone with a camera when the boat tipped off the trailer...haha.
when i get things apart, ill take pix, as of now everything is in assembled condition.

 

[omcdolt]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

Ok so i got the hull repair done with the marine-tex stuff, it was alot goopier than i expected however it did the job once i saturated some matt with it and filled the void with that.
Changed the lower unit oil, It was a transparent brown in color, with only a TINY bit of milkyness to it and a slight red tinge, ive seen much worse come out of bike transmissions and cars on brand new harleys out of the crate. toward the end of the drain the fluid took on a tiny bit more of an orange color, but nothing exciting. I think seals will last the season. I put in brand new johnson stuff and its green so ill change the fluids again mid summer and see what it looks like.
Compression Check:
Top port: 110
Bottom port:105
Top starbord:75
Bottom starboard:110

The brp engine treatment did help across the board but the low cyll is still too low. Ill do head gaskets soon, wich will give me a look at the cyll/piston condition.
I may do the treatment again next week, just to see if it continues to help.
Changed plugs, for the hell of it (saved the old-new ones for backups since the one had a slight chip on the ceramic (i think out of box)), noted the plugs were all nicely colored like a toasted marshmallow with very little oil fouling around the plug body. Still getting alot of oil seepage around the plug holes, but i dont think its the plugs leaking, not sure whats up.

One question. If the VRO is both the oil, and the fuel pump for the motor... how is it my motor runs with the vro's only electrical harness....disconnected...
I was looking things over, noted the vro was disabled when i bought it, but today after finding out the vro was both pumps in one, i realized... its not plugged in... at all. How does my motor run? Is there THAT much suction in my resivoirs to bring fuel into the carbs or is there some kind of engine vaccum pump action going on?
also the VRO is labeled alchohol resistant, does that mean the engines fuel lines are also? I plan to replace the fuel line to the tank to be sure, but i dont wanna pull apart the motors lines unless absolutely nessicary.

One word of warning to new marine-tex users, mix it in the jar, way less wasted product, just make sure you get it out of there and onto the boat quick as it sets faster in clumps like any epoxy. I barely got any use out of the first jar, wich i mixed on a board as instructed. The second i mixed in the jar and i had too much.

I guess all thats left now to do before i start using it hard is new impellar and T-stats.

-Jason

 

[bob johnson]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

I think all the electricals in the pump works the OIL side...thats why they call it VARIABLE Ratio..it mixes based on engine feedback...

the fuel just gets pumped.

there maybe some electrical for the fuel delivery side in terms of pressure, (I think there is a low fuel pressure warning on some engines) but it isnt in the harness you dissconnected.

good luck

bob

 

[omcdolt]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

Got it in the water again, another trailer mishap of course. This time someone pulled directly in front of me without looking and i had to hit the brakes hard to avoid hitting them. I hear a resounding crash behind me. Look at the trailer to see the bow is 1" from my tailgate, and the bow stop split in half, where the bow proceeded to bend the stop tower to the side so it could slide forward on the trailer. I look at the *** end, and the transom rolled forward off the last set of rollers, thus the rollers slammed up and locked the transom in this position. I had no choice but to tow the boat in this fashion the rest of the way to the ramp, so i could float the boat off the trailer. the rollers managed to bust up my speedo mount, utterly annihalate my depth transponder, and put another dent in the transom. Im beginning to feel a bit unlucky.
Luckily (wink) i had a 2nd depth sounder, and no real damage to the hull, so once it was in the water we took for a spin, took a while to warm up to full throttle use, but once it did, worked fairly well, a little lower on the top speed today for whatever reason. Ran about 20 blissfull uneventful miles to the delaware river and back to the ramp, where i decided to switch fuel tanks and do another jaunt to the river, Pulled up to the dock, tied off, turned the key off, switched lines, pumped bulb till hard, turned key, nothing. Just cranked away but wouldnt start... now this motor has started first turn of the key ever since i decarbed it. I proceeded to play with the primer bulbs, throw some oil/starter in there, anything i could do at the dock for about 20 min to no avail, that ended the day...
SO i guess its back to spark checks, compression checks, and scratching my head... I noticed the primer didnt click like it normally does, could this have died while running and i wouldnt notice untill i went to start again?

 

[omcdolt]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

Got it on muffs shortly after my previous post, started up within 10 cranks with fast idle on and priming as usual....started, stopped, started, stopped, started, stopped, no issue. so it dont wanna start when its hot off the plane.... ideas? i mean i idled into the ramp area, a good 5 minutes, should be good amount of time to get back to normal idle temps...it never overheated, i felt the heads for 3+ sec right after i turned motor off. starting fluid did not have an effect. when i went to restart hot, i just did it with fast idle lever down, figuring it was plenty warmed up, should start, then when it didnt start within 3 cranks, i pulled lever up, tried it that way.

 

[jonesg]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

If my engine ran like that I wouldn't take it 20 feet from the ramp, you went 20 miles but didn't take troubleshooting tools.

 

[omcdolt]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

I never said i did not have trouble shooting tools, i had with me a full set of allen wreches, combination wrenches, sockets, compression tester, fluids, spark tester, meter , etc etc. I had a FULL set of tools with me, i just decided once the issue happened AT THE HOME DOCK, that i would deal with the diagnostics later, as i was satisfied with my time on the water and others were launching and loading at the ramp so i did not want to tinker with it there any longer. The motor ran well the entire time whilst out, it starts and restarts while hot immediately after its turned off, the problem came to show when it was hot and sat at the dock for 20+min while i switched out fuel tanks.
Took it out again today, the same trip, no issue except the same, we parked it whilst in the city to enjoy a free concert on the waterfront, came back 30 minutes later to find it flooded on first start attempt. I proceeded to use the large selection of diagnostic and repair tools that i have onboard with me every trip, to dissasemble the airbox and clean the spark plugs, to find the motor was flooded. After taking the airbox cover off to let the pool of gasoline that had collected in the bottom drain, and cleaning the plugs, i let it air out with plugs out, and cool for 20 min with the hood off, and it started up. So ive determined its flooding, i just dont know why its flooding whilst sitting docked up and off. The vent for the fuel tank was open so i dont think fuel tank pressure buildup was the cause.

On another unlucky note, struck a submerged floating log in the main channel today, bent the hell out of one of the prop blades. Have a spare but its a towing prop, not so sure itl serve my cruising needs but ill give it a try tomorrow morning, the prop i had was a 17, this is a 15 pitch.

 

[jonesg]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

If the tank is mounted high and carb floats are stuck,
fuel can syphon into the engine,

or if tank is mounted high and engine is left tilted same again.
Try disconnecting the fuel tank if possible, sounds like deck tanks.?

 

[bob johnson]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

I never said i did not have trouble shooting tools, i had with me a full set of allen wreches, combination wrenches, sockets, compression tester, fluids, spark tester, meter , etc etc. I had a FULL set of tools with me, i just decided once the issue happened AT THE HOME DOCK, that i would deal with the diagnostics later, as i was satisfied with my time on the water and others were launching and loading at the ramp so i did not want to tinker with it there any longer. The motor ran well the entire time whilst out, it starts and restarts while hot immediately after its turned off, the problem came to show when it was hot and sat at the dock for 20+min while i switched out fuel tanks.
Took it out again today, the same trip, no issue except the same, we parked it whilst in the city to enjoy a free concert on the waterfront, came back 30 minutes later to find it flooded on first start attempt. I proceeded to use the large selection of diagnostic and repair tools that i have onboard with me every trip, to dissasemble the airbox and clean the spark plugs, to find the motor was flooded. After taking the airbox cover off to let the pool of gasoline that had collected in the bottom drain, and cleaning the plugs, i let it air out with plugs out, and cool for 20 min with the hood off, and it started up. So ive determined its flooding, i just dont know why its flooding whilst sitting docked up and off. The vent for the fuel tank was open so i dont think fuel tank pressure buildup was the cause.

On another unlucky note, struck a submerged floating log in the main channel today, bent the hell out of one of the prop blades. Have a spare but its a towing prop, not so sure itl serve my cruising needs but ill give it a try tomorrow morning, the prop i had was a 17, this is a 15 pitch.

you should be fine with the prop...just dont go WOT....keep the rpms below 5500......

I know when I tilt my engine gas runs out of the carbs and into the lower cowl...and leave the oily residue from the 2 stroke oil... and stinks the place up...

I doubt that is whats supposed to happen

are you tilting your motor???

or leaving it down ?

bob

 

[omcdolt]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

i leave it down, with line connected, and tank vent open. The tanks are deck tanks, sitting on the deck just forward of the motor well. i noticed when i got back on the boat after the concert, the fuel bulb felt like it was sucking air, and took quite a few pumps to get solid, feeling squishy all the way up to the last pump where it goes solid. I checked line for leaks, no issues, i wonder if the barbs on the tank arent engaging this particular fuel line well enough. I never had this issue with my other tank, only when i switched to my bigger tank, or while using the big tank (today)

 

[omcdolt]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

also anyone try running the 12" 4 blade props on these things?
Im looking for smooth power and speed, i have a towing prop for skiiers, but i want something smooth and fast for cruising wich is the majority of what i do. I dont mind if it takes a little longer to get on plane with the cruising prop, since efficiency and speed are the goal.
The bent prop is toast, it shakes the boat all over the place at anything but planing speed, and wot rpm has risen with a 9mph drop in speed. I dont wanna risk cooking the seals on the shaft using the bent prop.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1196 Evinrude 115 Overheat buzzer when not overheating

A simple way to prevent flooding, if you want the motor tilted up, is to disconnect the fuel and just run the motor out of gas. Can't flood w/o fuel!

Flooding may be caused by maladjusted floats in carbs or float driven valve not closing due to junk, damaged seat, etc.