135 pistons

rob 135

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This is the reason for my rebuild ! Will acid remove the aluminum on cylinder walls?image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
 

Bosunsmate

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6,135
Re: 135 pistons

What do you think caused it?
A light honer would sort it out, $15 and just attached to a drill
 

rob 135

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Re: 135 pistons

It was detonation from the new fuel and timing . Motor still ran ,little hard start but when running was great. I got 4 new pistons for it now. I don't think a hone will get that aluminum off without a lot of honing
 

Bosunsmate

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6,135
Re: 135 pistons

I always thought it was hard to get timing out that far on it. Not sure about acid never tried it
 

rob 135

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Aug 8, 2013
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Re: 135 pistons

We'll the advance was way off . Base timing too . While cruising at speed I lost cylinder pulled plug had metal on it . Cleaned metal off and drove a couple more trips . I bought motor and boat and was told of course good to go . Should of done tuneup myself
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
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Re: 135 pistons

Will acid remove the aluminum on cylinder walls?

What do you think the acid will be doing to the steel cylinder sleeve and the surrounding aluminum casting? Not a good idea!

Have a reliable machine shop clean the cylinders up to coincide with whatever bore your new pistons might be. The 135hp standard bore is 3.500 .

If the cylinders are scored, they'll require reboring to a larger size. Installing new pistons in a scored but otherwise clean cylinder is a waste of time.
 
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rob 135

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 8, 2013
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Re: 135 pistons

I was told use muric acid it will dissolve the aluminum , and not hurt cylinder. Just a little at a time on just the one spot in cylinder.
 

emdsapmgr

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Dec 9, 2005
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11,551
Re: 135 pistons

Rob, I've used muratic acid to remove the piston aluminum which has transferred to the cast iron cyl walls. Used sparingly, it can be applied with a brush or eyedropper. It will dissolve the aluminum, leaving the cast iron intact. When the alum is dissolved, then clean the cyl area quickly after it's dissolved. No problem-works fine. Does look like a detonation problem. If it were a fuel/oiling issue, likely the rings would have overheated, then broke/cracked, then the ring pcs would have pitted/dented the piston crowns and head faces. That did not happen. Just got too hot from too much timing. These engines normally run rich at idle, so likely the WOT timing was too advanced. Couple of additional sidebar comments that may have been contributing factors to your failure: 1. The 135 cyl heads were the tightest (highest compression) of all the V4 crossflow engines ever made. So everything has to be just perfect ie: The 76 service manual says the 135's were made to run on 86 octane, either leaded or lead-free. The factory never said they will run well on today's 87 gas/ethanol crap. So, with today's fuels, run this engine on a steady diet of 92 ethyl only. (unless you retard the timing.) 2. The timing on this engine needs to be set to factory spec, but only when running at 4300-4600 rpm's. Can't set WOT timing at idle rpm's. (it is a valid method-only if you know what you are doing.) The timing on this engine will creep 2+ degrees from idle to WOT, due to the characteristics of the ignition electronics. This would distort any max timing setting that a prior owner may have done, if he set the WOT timing to factory spec-when done at idle rpm's. 3. There is no base idle timing spec, other than to initialize timing when first started after an overhaul. Once running, set the idle rpm's (650-700 rpms) in forward gear when the boat is floating in the lake. It's the setting of the idle rpm's that determines the final/correct idle timing-not the service manual.
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
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13,262
Re: 135 pistons

(Timing At Cranking Speed 4?)
(J. Reeves)

NOTE: If your engine has the "Fast Start" feature", you must disconnect/eliminate that feature in order to use the following method. The "Fast Start" automatically advances the spark electronically when the engine first starts, dropping it to normal when the engine reaches a certain temperature.

The full spark advance can be adjusted at cranking speed,"without" have the engine running as follows.

To set the timing on that engine, have the s/plugs out, and have the throttle at full, set that timer base under the flywheel tight against the rubber stop on the end of the full spark timer advance stop screw (wire it against that stop if necessary).

Rig up a spark tester on the #1 cylinder plug wire. Hook up the timing light to the #1 plug wire. Crank the engine over and set the spark advance to 4? less than what the engine calls for.

It's a good idea to ground the other plug wires to avoid sparks that could ignite fuel that may shoot out of the plug holes. I've personally never grounded them out and have never encountered a problem but it could happen.

I don't know the full spark advance setting your engine calls for, but to pick a figure, say your engine calls for 28?, set the timing at 24?. The reasoning for the 4? difference is that when the engine is actually running, due to the nature of the solid state ignition components, the engine gains the extra 4?.

If you set the engine to its true setting at cranking speed, when running it will advance beyond its limit by 4? which will set up pre-ignition causing guaranteed piston damage! You don't want that to take place.

No need to be concerned about the idle timing as that will take care of itself. The main concern is the full advance setting.

A fellow member from one of the various marine forums suggested having water supplied to the water pump (flushette or barrel) simply to provide lubrication to impeller. A worthwhile suggestion I thought, and entered here.

Be sure to use your own engines spark advance settings, not the one I picked out of the air here in my notes.
 

rob 135

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 8, 2013
Messages
167
Re: 135 pistons

Thank you ! Great info! I was running 87 octane with additive . But after rebuild I'm just gonna run 92 or higher. I have 4 new pistons for it and don't want same problem .will set timing like j.reeves posted at first .
 

emdsapmgr

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Dec 9, 2005
Messages
11,551
Re: 135 pistons

Sounds like a plan. Joe's procedure is a good one. One other thing. The family of crossflows (for some reason) seems abnormally inclined to accumulate carbon around the piston rings and piston skirts after a number of years of normal running. Long-term carbon accumulation over the years will affect idling, compression and has, on occasion, caused powerhead failures. The keep the engine running top drawer all the time, the factory recommends a carbon guard additive. This will reduce, clean any carbon from the piston/ringsets. Bombardier makes it in a couple different flavors: 1. they sell it in a bottle, to be added to each tank of fuel. 2. They sell an aerosol Engine Tuner can which can be sprayed into the throats of carbs when warmed up-to give it a one-time strong dose/shot of combustion chamber cleaner. 3. They also add it direct to their Bombardier oils-specifically their XD50 oil. (saves having to meter it into each can of new fuel.) I'd suggest you run carbon guard in each tank of fuel and every year to two-give your engine a shot of Engine Tuner to make sure it stays clean.
 
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