140 Chrysler end

[merc644]

According to all I've read, 1984 is the last year "Chrysler" specific outboards were produced. I have never seen a 1984 Chrysler outboard for sale and would be interested in seeing the color scheme used that year. What I am wondering is what happened to the 140 in 1985 and later? I know they were produced under US Marine's name of Force but was the 140 detuned to 125 or was it the same motor, same power, just measured differently? Were they the same for 1986? Thanks to all.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 140 Chrysler end

That is a rather difficult question: I have never seen or heard of a Force 140--but that doesn't mean they were never made.

Easier: The 125 is NOT a detuned 140. The 140 was the ONLY Chrysler engine with a 2.875 stroke by 3.375 bore for 104 cubic inches. The 125 always was and still is 2.875 stroke by 3.3125 bore for 102 cubic inches. Because horsepower is partially derived from the size of the bore and this is one of the more important factors in the equation, the 125 was nowhere equal to the 140.

The 120 was originally 2.80 stroke by 3.3125 bore for 99 cubic inches. Late model Force 120s were changed to 2.80 by 3.375, again, about 101-2 cubic inches and were a much better engine. Early Force DID make a 115 with the 2.80 X 3.375 configuration.

Note that with all these engines, port size and timing plus carburation set the horsepower. ALL outboards after 1982 were by convention regulated by the NMMA rated at the prop. However, there is a percentage leeway that production engines can exhibit. Thus one brand 100 horsepower engine may not be equal to another brand.

In fact, even the late model Force 40s and 50s were changed from a 3.187 bore to a 3.375 bore. Coupled with Mercury electronic ignition, they were a much more powerful engine and ran rings around the old design.

 

[merc644]

Re: 140 Chrysler end

Thanks Frank. That's the kind of information I was looking for.
I am in the market for a 140 Chrysler and because they are so hard to find I was hoping the Force 125 was the same motor (effectively giving me more to choose from). I am guessing that the 140's between '78 and 84 were all the same, and even though the rating regulations changed in 82, the earlier 140's lived up to the new rating standards.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 140 Chrysler end

If you end up buying just a block, you must be certain that there is a paint mark (usually red or green) on the bottom cylinder--that is how they were identified at the factory.

 

[merc644]

Re: 140 Chrysler end

How was the 150 (early 70's 4 cylinder) different from the 140? Were all 10 horsepower in the megaphone pipes (not sure if all 150's had the megaphones), or is it possible to squeeze another 10 from the 140 using same/other mods?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 140 Chrysler end

The 150 was not based on the 140 block. it was the 120 block. Honestly, I have never seen a Chrysler 150, only read of them and I don't know how Chrysler developed the horsepower. It is possible to do it with well engineered ports and higher RPM than usual.

The RACING unit had the pipes, as well as the 135 racing engine. These pipes were tuned between the 1-2 and 3-4 cylinders. They were attached with a water cooled manifold in place of the exhaust cover. silicone rubber sleeves adjusted the pipe length.

Since the firing order is 1324 and there is a 120 degree port timing, there is a 30 degree overlap which blows exhaust back into #2 reducing power. ( 1 and 2, and 3 and 4 are 180 degrees apart and the top two are rotated 90 degrees so all four crankpins are 90 degrees apart in the correct firing order) Tuning 1 and 2 and separating them from 3 and 4 allows a reverse pulse generated by the pipe(s) to keep the fresh charge(s) from blowing out the exhaust ports

The racing lower unit was either a 1 to 1 or an overdrive---I forget which. They swung something like a 10 inch diameter prop to keep engine RPM up in the power range.

The last racing lower unit and tuned pipes combo that I saw sold on ebay for about 1700 bucks.

Franz over at The Chrysler Crew could probably answer your questions better than I can.

 

[merc644]

Re: 140 Chrysler end

Thanks Frank, that is excellent information. Just need to get my hands on a well preserved 140 now, preferably a Charger. Was also wondering if all 'Charger' outboards had the 1 piece lower unit, while non-Charger outboards had the two piece.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 140 Chrysler end

NO, I don't think so. The one piece lower unit was designed around 1978 and I don't think the "Charger" logo was used until after that. The one piece was advertised as faster than the two piece and indeed, a test I did a couple of years ago proved that on my hull it was 3 MPH faster.

Part of the extra speed was better streamlining and part was the fact that the one piece midleg and lower unit is one inch shorter than the two piece. The reverse gear is carried differently in the one piece for less internal drag.

I think the blue and white color scheme was the early '80s paint design. There was noting special about a "charger" except possibly the Prestolite ignition versus the distributor, so if you found a different engine, retro-fit and painted it, you would have a charger.

 

[merc644]

Re: 140 Chrysler end

I don't mean to take this thread in another direction, but how would you identify a 2 piece lower from a single? I don't believe have never seen a 1 piece (although I have 2 beat up lower units in my garage).

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 140 Chrysler end



Hey! It's your thread. take it in any direction you like. LOL

The two piece lower unit has the gearcase torpedo separate from the top casting. The drive shaft is splined with 18 splines and had a hole through it for a 5/16 pin to locate the prop. The prop hub has a hole for the pin and the tailcone screws onto the shaft, holding the thrust pin in place. The rear bearing carrier is held to the gearcase by two 3/8 allen head capscrews.

The one piece is just that: One piece. it has a 15 spline prop shaft and the prop is located by a thrust washer. Water pick-up slots are located at the rear of the gearcase torpedo. It is almost twice as long as the two piece gearcase.

You can NOT swap these lower units. You must also change the midleg.

 

[merc644]

Re: 140 Chrysler end

Thanks for the pictures Frank, and the information. It looks like the two I have in the garage are both single piece units. One appears to be repairable (has an extension welded to the bottom of the skeg). The other could be repaired with more money; looks like it met with lots of rocks (and corrosion along the front of the horizontal fin).