15 hp Johnson Project

[gm280]

Bullie, if you are getting spark then you know for certain that neither condenser is shorted. Now if they are open, that isn't determined at this point. But make sure if you are going to do a start on that engine, that you torque that flywheel to factory specs or you could be buying another flywheel. And that wouldn't be a good thing to do. If you're not familiar with testing condensers, then either run the engine like it is, or replace them if you buy another parts. Because it is easier to replace them then try to explain how to test them, especially if you are not that familiar with condensers and/or your meter. Just for some info, condensers are merely capacitors that protect the points from arc jump burning by keeping the points from arcing when they open and close. As the two point sections come close together (and apart) the voltage builds up in the coils will try to jump across the points and that burns them. And over time the points stop working because of burn material on them. The capacitor/condensers absorb such arcing possibilities. So testing them is best left to those who know how. If the points stop sparking soon after everything else is cleaned and working, change the condensers... But I have to reiterate that you must torque that flywheel before starting that engine... I don't know the torque for your engine, but mine goes to 100 - 105 ft/lbs. That IS a huge amount. So it isn't just a tight fit, it is some serious torque. You need to check the factory spec and do yours that way before even a little firing up and test run of it...

 

[racerone]

Torq for the 9.9 flywheel nut is 40 / 45 FT-LBS.

 

[Bullie]

gm280, I purchased a manual for this motor and will wait for it to arrive before proceeding. I suspect the torque on this motor will be about half of yours. I also suspect that the flywheel wasn't torqued correctly when I received it as it popped off when I was putting in the bolts with a 1/4 drive ratchet. Just evening up the pressure actually, I never applied any pressure to the center bolt.

 

[gm280]

Bullie, I am positive so many others would love for their flywheels to come off that easily. I know I had to really work for a long time to get mine to pop off, and so many other have too. Some times things goes your way... Good for you I'll say. And it seem "racerone" stated that yours is only 40 /45 ft/lbs. That is also good to know... Let us know how everything works out. :thumb:

 

[jaymen1957]

The old condensers will last a long time of someone did not pull the engine through with the spark plugs disconnected....that beaks down the condenser dielectric.

Modern condensers are not made in the USA, and often will fail in the short term. Unless you are sure the condensers are bad, don't replace them.

At our marina, one year during the winter, we installed all new tune-up kits on our 9.9 and 6 hp fishing fleet engines. Next spring we spent all our time on the lake retrieving our broken down fishing boats. Luckily, we did not throw away the old condensers and so we put them all back in the engines and never had another ignition related failure. Upon close inspection, the condensers were not Mallory, made in USA, but had made in Taiwan in them.

 

[Bullie]

I got the flywheel torqued down, sprayed a little fuel mix in the carb, and gave her a couple of tugs.

http://vid230.photobucket.com/albums...psk3yq1vlt.mp4

Gotta get it on a boat and see if I can smooth her out a little bit....but it is awake!!!

I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate your help. Great advice!!

I have the puller on the little Chrysler's flywheel...no movement yet. I am hoping to get that one going soon too.

 

[Bullie]

Gonna replace the coils on the Johnson and give it back to my nephew. Thanks again for all the instruction.

Concerning the little Chrysler (Sea King) 9.9... After attention to the points and ground connections the motor now has good spark (7/16+). I removed and cleaned the carb then reinstalled. I chased air leaks in the fuel lines and replaced the line from the fuel pump to the carburetor with a clear line and added a inline fuel filter. All that is now good. I picked up my 3rd compression gauge in a week today. The first two were "nice" ones from Harbor Freight. I couldn't get either of them to register anything over 60 lbs even on a motor I know to have 125 lbs compression. So, picked up a 3rd gauge from Auto Zone this afternoon. The bad news is that the top cylinder has about 105lbs compression and the bottom has 85lbs. I had been doing all this tinkering without knowing the actual compression.

All that said, after the carb cleaning and new fuel lines I pumped the bulb up tight and she fired right off. I didn't want to fill the barrel again tonight so I shut it right back down. So, now I don't know what to do. Am I wasting my time with this motor thinking it will ever run well again or should I keep chipping away at the little stuff and maybe get it running with the lopsided compression readings? Need some advice.

 

[AlTn]

you can pull the head and inspect the cylinder walls, piston crowns, etc....if no clear signs of scoring...is it worth a head gasket and head surfacing?...if this is a salt water motor I don't know if the added variables make even these procedures worthwhile....just one opinion

 

[Bullie]

No salt water. It came out of the Arkansas delta. It's extremely clean for it's age. I can try giving the head a peek.

http://vid230.photobucket.com/albums...psupvra5hy.mp4

Got it to run tonight. But, only until it runs out of gas in the lines. It is hard to get gas past the fuel pump to the carb (all new gas lines). I will order a kit for it tonight. Never rebuilt a fuel pump. Any advice would be appreciated.​

 

[OptsyEagle]

Bullie, one suggestion would be to open a new thread in the Chrysler section of this site. I know a reasonable amount about Evinrude's and Johnson's, but I have never seen a running Chysler Sea King, so I hesitate to advise. You might find a few more experts in the Chrysler area, then by continuing with this thread. This thread is really only going to grab the attention of 15 Hp Johnson experts.

 

[Bullie]

OptsyEagle, I opened a thread in that section at the same time as this one. It has had no replies at all. I may not be getting specific information from you OMC guys but you are a big help to me in figuring out the issues with this motor. Though, if I need to not use this topic for the Chrysler due to forum rules I will certainly cease the discussion.

 

[OptsyEagle]

Hey, whatever works. I have rebuilt OMC fuel pumps but I can't tell you if any of that knowledge would be helpful with a Chrysler. I can tell you that it requires really small fingers and a lot of patience.

Also, if the motor is not pumping fuel, it can be a few other things then just a fuel pump. It can be bad check valves in the fuel hose, a non venting fuel tank, an air leak in the connections, a sticking inlet valve on the carburetor and of course the fuel pump.

The first thing I would do is remove the cap on the fuel tank to rule out a fuel tank venting problem. Look closely at the fuel hose connectors to see if you might have an air leak. Make sure the screws that hold the pump to the motor and keep it together, are good and snug. You can also disconnect the line from the fuel pump to the carburetor and either start it up or just pull the starter and see if fuel pulses out of that line from the fuel pump. If it does, then I would suspect the carburetor. Of course if you have another fuel hose for your gas tank, try that as well.

I would probably try all the above before I started rebuilding that fuel pump. If it is like the OMC ones, I really try to avoid that repair job, but I also am aware that an entirely new pump is quite expensive.

 

[Bullie]

I replaced all the fuel lines after finding several little holes, but I guess 31 years is decent service life. I installed a clear hose from the fuel pump to the carb. I can get very little gas to exit the fuel pump no matter how tightly I pump the bulb. The tank fuel line is new also and pumps gas well.

Ok. I am very green at this but this was my thought process for landing on the fuel pump as the problem. I get very little fuel outflow from the pump even when pumping up the bulb. The fuel line from the pump to the carb is clear and I can see big air bubbles in the line that I can't pump out with the bulb. I am getting very tiny spurts...very small... through the pump but, even so, I managed to flood the engine so badly that the top of my barrel changed color with fuel and oil when I tried to start it. I assumed (Yeah, I know what that means) that I was forcing fuel from the pump into the crank case and flooding it. Does that make any sense?

I had to let the motor sit for about 45 minutes with the plugs out for the fuel to evaporate. Then it started up and ran pretty good...good enough that I was attempting to adjust the idle when I noticed the gas emptying from the fuel line and tried to pump the bulb back up... to no avail. The bulb was still reasonably firm and only tiny little spurts were coming out of the pump with each squeeze and none before I tried squeezing the bulb. Maybe there is a filter incorporated into the pump and it is clogged.... I donno.

Does this shed any light on what might be the issue if not the fuel pump?

 

[OptsyEagle]

If it was an OMC fuel pump, I would remove two screws that hold it to the motor while leaving the other screws to keep the pump together. I would then squeeze the primer bulb and see if the pump leaks fuel.

You may have a leak through the pulse diaphragm that connects it to the motor. If so, when you squeeze the primer bulb, gas would flow into the crankcase of that cylinder. Also, that leak would probably prevent fuel from flowing to the carb. If I am right, then a fuel pump rebuild is required. Also, if you un-attach the fuel pump from the motor, take a close look at the gasket that is supposed to seal the pump to the motor to verify that it is in good condition.

Now all that being said, when you run a 2 stoke motor in a tub of water, the water will get cruddy. As you may know, not all the fuel gets properly burned when a 2 stroke runs and it ends up in that tub. Also, you may be running on just one cylinder (possibly caused by one flooded cylinder that holds the fuel pump) and if that is the case, the water tub will start to look pretty green and cruddy, for sure.

Anyway, when you un-attach the fuel pump and prime the primer bulb, there should not be any fuel leaking out of the fuel pump. Give that a check if you can.

 

[OptsyEagle]

Our resident expert Leeroy has some links that may help. Here is one on repairing Chrysler Gamefishers motors:

http://www.leeroysramblings.com/chry...fisher_15.html

and two more on rebuilding the OMC fuel pumps (unfortuneately none on Chrysler fuel pumps)

http://www.leeroysramblings.com/Rebuilding_fuelpump.htm

http://www.leeroysramblings.com/rebu...7_fuelpump.htm

 

[Bullie]

We may be on to something. A little more than a pinhole... I think it lends credence to our theory.


This is the inlet for gas from the tank. This is actually an inline filter built into the pump. I could blow air through it but it was obviously very restricted.

Oh, and when I say I had to stop due to fuel and oil... I had to stop. It was fresh and there was lots of it. I was afraid of a spark and turned the water on again and let the tank overflow for several minutes until all of the fuel/oil had gone over the top out. Given the picture, I am sure you can imagine how much fuel I may have pumped into the engine while hopelessly trying to push fuel into the carb.

 

[OptsyEagle]

Yes. That rip is a problem. Give it a rebuild and she should work a little better.

If you could have got it running and ignited that exhaust, the flame flying out from behind the moving boat would have looked pretty cool on the lake. lol.

 

[Bullie]

The pump rebuild went well. It was just 3 gaskets and a diaphragm. It works. Now...if I could just get that stupid bendix to climb the shaft.

 

[Bullie]

I know this is a cheap ol Chrysler but I enjoyed the challenge (at least for me) of getting it running again. I have a couple more little things to fix but I think this may be just the motor for my little Pelican Predator.
http://vid230.photobucket.com/albums/ee260/Bulliedawg2/Jiggs/20150207_132910_zpsomyfyrjm.mp4