15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

[Baslan]

I apologize in advance for the novel but I want to make sure I provide as best a description of my situation as I can.

So I've been posting in other parts of this forum trying to figure out why my 1996 15ft Seahunt CC is only hitting 4400rpm and 22 mph at WOT with a 2002 Yamaha 50hp Four-Stroke (typical 2-man fishing trip weight). I'll give you a very brief synopsis so you all understand the operating condition of the boat- engine got an overhaul and clean bill of health about 4 months ago. Carbs rebuilt, sparkplugs, fuel lines, fuel tank, all replaced. New Yamaha aluminum prop 10 5/8x12. All cylinder pressures checked out and the engine is completely healthy. So having used process of elimination to deduce that my lack of performance wasn't mechanical in nature, with the helpful advice of these forums, I turned to the hull. I grew up on an island, have been driving boats all my life, done plenty of mechanical work, but I am an absolute novice when it comes to any type of glassing or hull repair, so I think subconsciously I was desperately hoping it wasn't hull related. But it appears to be.

The hull has definitely had some patching here and there by the po, but nothing noticeable below the waterline, although it has awfully applied, uneven, orange-peelish bottom paint which might be obscuring quite a bit.Also, along the bottom of the V of the hull, right where the hull would make contact with the sand whenever I beach the boat, I noticed that there's no bottom paint, no gelcoat, and simply some exposed fiberglass. A strip about 1/2" wide and a foot long. Could water seep through here? And could this be the point of ingress?

When I gave the inside of the hull a closer inspection I noticed about an inch or two of sitting water between the areas of foam. (I will have pictures soon). I was going to take a core sample of the foam, but simply by pressing down on the top of it with my finger I can tell its completely soaked. Who knows how long its been exposed to this water. I haven't cut any holes into the floor yet because the notion of doing so scares the crap out of me. I'm going to be entering completely foreign territory when it comes to the properties of fiberglass, and all the other component knowledge necessary to determine the condition of a hull. Terms that I've seen on these forums like stringers, weep holes, limber holes, etc are gibberish to me at the moment. I'm trying to educate myself via these forums, but I plead with anyone that is kind enough to respond to this post to pretend you're explaining things to a child. I should note that I've checked every square inch of the deck for soft spots and have found none. The transom also seems perfectly fine as the sitting water does not actually reach the transom from what I can tell. Although, I will drill some holes into it this weekend to see if there's moisture in the wood.

Pictures of the boat, transom, bilge, and sitting water follow. Thank you all so much for any help in advance and thank you iboats for this incredible forum.

The boat


The bilge


View of the inside of the hull #1 (this porthole is located directly infront of the bilge area)


View of the inside of the hull #2 (this is situated right at the driver's feet behind the cc)


Is this a weep hole for draining this water? If you look closely at the picture labeled inside of hull #1, you'll see at the very bottom a white pvc-type pipe running along the bottom. This hole is where that pipe ends. I noticed the pipe definitely has water in it, but when I stick my finger in there, I can tell is blocked with all sorts of debris. You call also see this hole in the second picture to get a better idea of where its located. In this picture it looks like its a flat hole on the bottom but the hole is actually right on the curve and therefore angled upward.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

All the terminology is really not important right now. What is important is that it appears you have water logged foam from either a breach in the hull from the bottom or from the top. This can add upwards of #1000 lbs of extra weight to the boat. It will NEVER dry out and the only way to deal with it is to remove it. Lots of examples here on the forum. Do a search on Wet Foam or Waterlogged foam.

 

[Baslan]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

I feared that is the case and I have already started reading up on the various examples on these forums. Tons of information and I think there's enough to give me a good idea of the steps to completion. But specific to my boat I was wondering if anyone could tell me what the best way to approach removing the foam might be. I can obviously reach some of the foam from the holes in the pictures. Is there going to be foam running along the entire length of the boat? If so what would be the best way to approach that foam towards the bow? I was thinking about cutting out the anchor storage in the bow and getting at it that way. This would allow a great deal of access and I wouldn't have to cut the floor. Another question I have specific to this boat is- is this foam required to be replaced for structural/functional purposes? Does anyone think I'm going to absolutely have to cut out parts of the deck floor to properly do this? One last question- the strip of exposed fiberglass on the bottom of the V that I mentioned, would enough water seep through there to be the cause of this, or do I more than likely have another breach? Thank you again for the help and I will definitely be continuing to read up on the threads already on these forums.

 

[logan944t]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

Get the bow up high --pull the plug to let the water drain. Get a wet/dry vac and suck out any water you can reach --and use the vac to unblock the pvc pipe. WOG is right about the foam--but maybe you're lucky and the waterlogged foam is confined to a small area and you caught it early.

The only way to be sure about the foam is to be able to access it.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

I am not familiar with that boat but my research on Sea Hunt boats tell me the hull is probably totally foam filled and you would have to remove the entire deck to get it all out. Maybe someone more familiar with that boat will come along.

"SeaHunts use a nice mix of foam filled stringers and transverse bulkheads in thier framing of the boats. I did a factory tour back in the early fall, and got a chance to see from start to finish how thier boats are made. Just like any hull, they start with a mold, lay in the layers of glass for the initial hull, but then thay have a seperate "grid" system they lay in ontop of that for as the stringers, Ive been to Sea Pro Factory and seen how they lay in stringers, and I must say SeaHunt is much bigger and seems stronger. Sea Pro uses preformed and prefilled (with foam) stringers that run the length of the boat, and they glass over the bases to attach them to the hull. SeaHunt has an entire grid like skeleton that they build over a mold with fiberglass, and then lay in over the hull, the difference mainly I saw was that SeaHunts stringers have ALOT of transverses (side to side) bulkheads and connections through out thier laid in stringers. Where as the others where ONLY 2 long stringers running the length of the boat fwd and aft (SeaHunts also run fwd and aft, but with alot more BEEF inbetween). I should note that the Coosa Transom is laid in too at this time....and then the stringers laid in over that...(I think this is correct) The Coosa Transoms I saw were installed in 2 parts, they have 1 layer of board that covers the whole back of the transom, then and additional layer that they add in around the centerline where the engine is mounted and where the stringers are tied in. Once they get everything laid into the hull, and is dry, they go back and add another layer of fiberglass sheeting over the seams of the the stringers/grid to secure it to the hull.....they also lay in another layer/strip of glass around all the corners and stress points on the inside of the hull (basically anywhere theres a bend of turn, the whole length of the chine, where the transom angles up, etc)

On the deck/liner side, the have it flipped upside down, and I got to see where they lay in coosa board along all the areas where things mount....console, leaning post , seat, T-Top etc. They even glass in mounting plates made out of alluminum in some of these areas too, I cant remember all, but I know I saw them, even backing plates for the gas strut mounts and hinge mounts.

When they finish all that, and send the boat on to the next stage, they then fill it FULL of foam, the stingers, the voids in the transverse bulkheads, all along the sides etc, they even go back and add more foam later once all the plumbing is fitted and wiring is done."

 

[BansheeVision]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

Wow, sounds like they did not spare the foam. Like logan944t suggested, if you get the bow up and force some air circulation through it you may get lucky. If you have an access point in the bow such through the anchor locker, you may also force some air through it by placing your shopvac hose on the vac exhaust. A fair sized vac can move an incredibly large volume of air in a few hours.

Is the boat noticeably heaver when reloading on the trailer after a just short time out? How much water is drained when you pull the plug after loading? I guess with all that foam you were in no danger of sinking.

 

[Baslan]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

Thank you for that specific information on the hull. Its good to hear it was built well but of course it appears its going to make this job infinitely more difficult, especially for a novice. I did noticed the "grid" system under the hull when I was inspecting and thought that was somewhat unique. I wonder if this grid system prevented ALL the foam from being exposed to water. Once I cut out the anchor locker I'll have a much greater access inside and be able to tell the full extent of the damage. (Got to go buy a new saw).

The boat was never noticeably heavier. Didn't have any handling issues, planes quickly, and responds well to trim. But I have some stabilizer fins on the engine and I believe this is covering up a lot of the performance issues I would otherwise be feeling from the heavy hull. I took the stabilizers off and ran it once to see if I would gain speed, but I didn't. All that happened was the stern rode noticeably lower in the water and I never got to a level plane. Now I know its probably because all the water in the hull rushed to the stern and never allowed the boat to level out. And as far as the boat taking on more water, I've taken it out twice since noticing the water in the hull to see if that water level would rise, and it hasn't so I don't believe there's a breach in the hull below the waterline. I don't know if any water is slowly seeping in through the exposed strip of fiberglass I mentioned, but otherwise, I think the water might actually have been collecting from the top somewhere.

A final question: is there any line of thinking that says I should just remove all the water I can, and run the boat like this instead of putting all this time and money into it? I don't there are any immediate safety concerns, right? The concern would be that I'm making my engine lug and probably shortening its life, right?
In the meantime, I'm trying to devise a secure way to tilt the trailer up as much as possible and see if anything else comes out of that drainage hole in the picture. I will also have a shopvac running air through it continuously. Thanks again guys. I will keep you posted.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

A final question: is there any line of thinking that says I should just remove all the water I can, and run the boat like this instead of putting all this time and money into it?

Ayuh,.... Sell it,... Now.....

I believe the only way to truly Repair that boat is well beyond yer expectations, 'n abilities....
The wet foam will Never dry,... Never Ever....

No disrespect intended, it's just what I see...

That appears to be a Boston Whaler style hull,...
Completely removin' the foam, requires completely disassemblin' the hull's cast pieces...

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

I was afraid this ^^^^ was going to be the answer, but I was going to let one of the more experienced guys say it...

For more discussion on your hull-type and the difficulties inherent in trying to fix it, see this thread...

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=533120&highlight=sea+squirt

 

[Baslan]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

Thank you guys for the insight. After reading the thread Pmc posted, I am going to have to agree that this project is something that is well beyond my abilities. Especially because from what I can already tell my particular hull as a ton more foam than that Sea Squirt. At this point I am thinking my best course of action will be to remove the engine and throttle from the boat and sell the hull as a project to someone who cares to restore it. Any ideas on what I should ask for?

One final question- is Craigslist the best place to find motorless hulls or are there other listing sites that people use?

 

[Baslan]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

It's me again. I very much hope I can you generous people's insight one more time As I'm searching for a new hull to put my engine on, I've had this boat on a tilt for several days since shopvaccing all the standing water out. No more water has collected and I haven't seen any drips from the back. I took a core sample of the foam in the very center of the boat where the water would have collected the most. Interestingly, only about the bottom 1" of the foam is wet, and the very top is moist to the touch. But out of a 6" core sample, only about 1/6 of it was actually wet. The rest is bone dry. The transom wood has also checked out as completely dry. What does this indicate for you more experienced boaters? Does this mean I caught it fairly early and might be able to salvage the boat? I have an uncle who's adamant that under these circumstances, if I flip the boat, seal up the hull and blow air through it for a month or two it'll dry most of the foam. Not all, but most. But even if I can lighten the boat this way by several hundred pounds, and make sure I seal up any potential ingress for water again, the boat might be properly functional? I just love this hull and would hate to see it go. :/

As far as any wood that might rot in the hull if there's ANY remaining wet foam, I understand that concern and share it, but I haven't been able to find a single piece of wood in this hull except for in the center of the transom. Its basically a Boston Whaler, so wood rot wouldn't be a huge concern, would it?

 

[oops!]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

hi....dont know how i missed this.....bondo is correct......totally correct.

your uncle is wrong.......the foam will never dry out....if you some how get it to dry out the second any water comes into contact with the foam it will suck it up instantly like a sponge, and you are back at squair one.

simply put......foam is a gazillion little tiny air bubbles in a protective skin. each bubble with its own skin.
when water gets into the foam.....the skin breaks and the bubbles air escapes and water takes its place.
this is why drying it out is near impossible.....the rupture in the bubble might only be a pin prick and air will not get into the bubble dury int the drying process to allow the water to evaporate. this is also why once the dryed gets wet again....it will soak up the water like a sponge.

as well....in colder climates where freezing happens,,,,,expansion and contraction of the water filled bubbles will cause the entire bubble to break during the freezing and thawing process... this is why your wet foam feels like mush!

lets find out how much water is in there.

ok....take every thing out of your boat......every thing.....if you can......remove the gas....or fill it full.

than take the boat to the weigh scales.

being a 96....you can still get factory specs on the hulls dry weight......the motor is another easy piece to get weight info on.

the gas is a variable....it weighs approx 8 lbs per gallon i think. after your calculations....subtract what the hull is supposed to weigh against what it does weigh.
that will tell you the amount of water logging.

to repair the boat......the only way is to rip up the deck by cutting it out......digging out the foam...repairing the holes in the hull......replacing the deck and re foaming.

lots of technical work for a first time diy.....

if you want to do it......we can walk you thru it

cheers
oops

 

[Baslan]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

oops thank you for the reply. I'm new but I've read a lot of your posts already and your opinion is highly valued.

I don't know where the nearest truck scale is, but I will find one and get a dry weight of the boat as it sits. I don't know if I'm going to be able to find the weight of the trailer though because its very old. If the scale is close by, I'll just take the trailer and weight it without the boat, but otherwise I'm going to have to approximate the weight of the trailer based on new trailers of the same size and make. Regardless, even if I'm off by 50 lbs on the trailer weight approximation, we'll be able to tell if the boat is water logged significantly or not based on it and the engine's weights. I've already put in a request to Sea Hunt for all the specs of this hull that they can provide. And I already have the specs of the engine.

 

[Baslan]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

Here is a response I got from Sea Hunt regarding the construction of this specific hull:

The construction of that boat consisted of a fiberglass stringer system and a marine xl treated plywood transom. The boat also had the entire floor foamed as well as foam in the gunnels of the boat. I have attached a brochure on the 153 that give the specifications of the boat. This is a 2 piece boat where the deck is bonded to the stringer system by a bonding putty. Hope this helps.

Does the 2-piece construction mean I might be able to dislodge the deck from the stringer system? Or is the bonding putty going to make that impossible?

 

[Baslan]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

Well, getting no responses, out of curiosity I removed the rub rail. Its clear that the entire deck is a cast single piece that lips right over the hull. Some places have rivets, some don't. Its become abundantly obvious that someone has already removed this deck/cap (not sure what to call it) once before. I can also tell now because there's space between where the bonding putty is and where the deck is, so that bond is no longer there. According to the Sea Hunt guy, the bonding putty should be directly in contact with the deck. It's not. When the deck, or cap, was placed back on the hull, they used some type of reddish adhesive agent because I can see parts under the rub rail where it squirted out. Is this going to make it difficult to remove the deck or is there some way I can loosen it?

Maybe because I initially threw in the towel my thread isn't getting a lot of attention, but hopefully I can get some sort of opinion on this matter as I decide whether or not to make this my first project. Based on what I've read throughout these forums, this job initially seems like a hell of an easier restoration than others (if my assumptions are remotely correct). Thanks guys.

Here is a picture of where the deck "cap" meets and overlaps the hull. All those random holes you see are where the rub rail has been removed, installed, removed, installed, without filling any previous holes. :/

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

Two of the most respected iBoat members have advised AGAINST the restoration of this boat. I would heed their advice.

 

[Baslan]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

With all due respect, I believe those gentlemen advised against ME doing the resto on my own given my limited knowledge and experience, working under the assumption that the deck would have to be cut out and completely rebuilt. I don't see anything about this particular hull being a bad candidate for a restoration- why would it be?

Those posts were made prior to the specific information I attained from the Sea Hunt guy about it being a 2-piece construction, and prior to me discovering that the deck has already been removed once before, completely in tact from what I can tell. I was simply attempting to get their opinions on the matter in light of this new information since they last posted.

You all had to start somewhere right? This hull is completely expendable for me, so if I can remove this deck/cap without having to destroy and rebuild it, this hull restoration might be a good place for me to start. If it gets destroyed in the process of learning from it, so be it.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

to repair the boat......the only way is to rip up the deck by cutting it out......digging out the foam...repairing the holes in the hull......replacing the deck and re foaming.

lots of technical work for a first time diy.....if you want to do it......we can walk you thru it

cheers
oops

You all had to start somewhere right? This hull is completely expendable for me, so if I can remove this deck/cap without having to destroy and rebuild it, this hull restoration might be a good place for me to start. If it gets destroyed in the process of learning from it, so be it.

If this is truly a disposable hull for you, there are lessons to be learned in attempting to completely disassemble this 2pc foam filled boat. The thread that PMC posted, the Squirt, had extremely high hopes as well. The owner of that boat spent some time attempting to take it apart, but ultimately found that the advice against it proved correct. However, he learned something about basic boat construction, and how best to take one apart. Valuable lessons. That helped him find a better candidate boat to suit his needs, and that more closely matched his skill set & ability.

With an unlimited budget, unlimited time, unlimited access to the correct materials & tools, it may be 'possible' to redo this boat but don't take offense when the advice doesn't sound like what you wanted to hear. It will be much more difficult then most 'regular' restorations because of how it was built & that will require different methods in both the demo & rebuild.

Oops offered to walk you through it if you wanted to attempt it. Take him up on it. Others may disagree, and have already done so. But oops won't let you down. Just do your best to take plenty of photos to accompany your posts & questions.

My advice would be to have fairly low expectations of finishing the put back of this boat and salvage as much as you can off this hull, EVERYTHING. Then proceed slowly w/ demo & carefully take note of how it was originally built. Copious notes & photos, and estimate the under deck volume that will require pour in foam. That was the final tipping point for the Squirt project to be abandoned. If I remember correctly, it was going to cost more for foam then all the other materials needed to put it back together & I think his hull was shorter.

 

[Baslan]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

Thank you JB, I appreciate your candid response. And I certainly took no offense, I'm just trying to gather as much information as possible before making any decisions about the fate of the hull, since I like it so much. oops said I would have to cut out the deck before it became known for sure from Sea Hunt that this was a 2-piece construction. I'm simply trying to get some clarity about whether his thoughts, or any qualified person's thoughts, are still the same in light of that. In other words, despite knowing for certain that the construction of this boat is 2-piece, based on his/your experience, I would not be able to separate the pieces cleanly, and therefore would still have to cut up the deck to get at the foam.

I read through the entire Sea Squirt thread and he had to completely rebuild the deck. If someone clears up the question I've posed above, and tells me that despite the 2-piece construction I would still have to rebuild the deck, then I will not attempt it. But there's evidence that this deck has come off completely before, and been reattached, so I want to make sure that that is no longer an option before I part with this hull.

As for the cost of the foam, your bring up a valid concern. I had not considered the cost of the foam. I will definitely attempt to calculate the approximate need and cost. But in the meantime, I would just love some clarity on the matter above. Thank you guys.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 15' Seahunt CC - WATERLOGGED! HELP!

If you can get the cap completely off to gain access to the wet foam and whatever other structure is down there, then go for it. Just calculate in the cost of foam when you make the determination to move forward.