150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

[johnbottsr]

When I tilt my engine all the way up, it will not come back down without a shove.
I am wondering if this is due to low hydraulic fluid or should I be worried about a bigger problem.
I have done exactly nothing about this so far because hydraulics intimidate me.

Here is a picture of what I think is the place to check fluid level:


Here is a picture of the bottom of the unit in the hopes someone will identify it as the bullet-proof Eaton pump.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

Yes check the fluid level first. First picture is the cap for the hydraulic fluid reservoir. Fluid should be level with the bottom of the fill plug opening. I believe that you're supposed to trim it all the way up to check the fluid. Don't take my word on that. Instructions on the side of the pump tell you how to trim it ( up or down) to check the fluid. I don't know if that is the Eaton pump.

 

[johnbottsr]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

The directions do say "trim full up" before removing cap.
I just wanted to make sure that was the cap!

I'll give her a go tomorrow.
If all goes well I will come out to Liberty to decarbonize the engine.
If it looks like the lake is on fire you'll know I am there.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

If the motor needs a PUSH??
Try spraying the exposed tilt rams with WD-40.
Grease the tilt/steering bar,king pin.
All the zerks.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

LOL! I'll be looking for the "smoke on the water"!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

I have had this happen on older systems and it usually turns out to be either a sticking O-ring on the tilt cylinder or a sticking shuttle inside the valve body.

I have two of your type in operation with no problems. I never had your system apart so I can not comment on what is inside the valve body.

I do know that with the older systems it is not necessary to fully raise the engine and if I do not go all the way up, it usually will come down on its own.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

that is the eaton pump. probably the most dependable and long lived pump mercury ever sold. it is a very good pump, but not bullet proof. It is very sensitive to debris. if it does start acting up from debris then a good cleaning and five orings and a few precision balls makes it run fine for another 50 years.

when an engine lowers it has gravity pulling it. the pump hardly has to do anything. look for a mechanical failure such as corroded steering tube or sticking shock. try not lifting engine as far and see if it still sticks.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

BTW: When you lift the engine all the way and if you hold the up button for only a few seconds longer, you will foam the oil. Air is way more compressible than oil and yeah, you will need to manually push the engine down to get it started.

 

[johnbottsr]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

Thanks guys, going out to check the fluid level. From RRitt's posts I have read I should be hoping I see brown liquid in there and top off with 30w non-detergent yes?
I will avoid lifting it all the way and grease everything up.

 

[johnbottsr]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

Well it is red in there and very low.
So, THF or ATF?
If ATF is it Dexron or ATF+4 (I have a bunch of the ATF+4).

 

[RRitt]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

uh, no. with an eaton you want to match existing fluid. if you do a full drain and flush then use ISO32 or AW32 hydraulic oil (HO). The big force engines have a lot of PSI on the trim ring. ATF can impregnate the rubber and cause the trim piston ring to split. HO helps avoid this but is not worth the effort of a full drain & flush at this point in its lifecycle.

 

[johnbottsr]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

I have no idea what is in there now.
Can I get by with the hydraulic oil not doing the full flush?

 

[RRitt]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

if it is red then it is dextron II atf. if it is golden then it is hydraulic oil. motor oil is too thick for eaton pumps and should not be used.

 

[johnbottsr]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

Well I got impatient and just used dex/merc ATF.
I figured my odds were pretty good.

I do have (another) question.
Are there supposed to be two switches for tilt / trim?
I only have one and suspect the tilt takes over when the ram for the trim fully extended.

Anyway, wish me luck because I am splashing the boat tomorrow for the first time this year.
My kicker is running like new and I have the Force cylinders soaking in SeaFoam tonight.

Gonna burn off some carbon and replace the plugs tomorrow.

Probably not on Liberty though pwn.
You will need to look to the north toward Newman to see if a new Pope was elected.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

Newman is probably a better choice anyways as the launch area there is much better, and the folks that use it are generally more experienced. The launch area at Liberty is known for it's tight quarters and entertainment value if you know what I mean. LOL!

 

[johnbottsr]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

Yeah, Liberty is real tight.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

Both tilt and trim cylinders are connected hydraulically at the pump. because the trim cylinder has much more area than the tilt cylinder, it extends first. When trim is fully extended (under no load) the tilt cylinder starts to move. under load conditions there is not enough hydraulic pressure to extend the tilt cylinder. At anything above around 1000 RPM in gear, tilt will not work.

So yes, there is only one switch. You can add a second switch in parallel with the first on the engine cowling so you don't need to run up to the front of the boat when getting ready to trailer.

However, if you do this don't do it half fast: Cut and splice the wires neatly, don't use those parallel taps.

 

[johnbottsr]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

Thanks Frank.
By the way, I figured out why my engine would stick after being tilted fully up.
The PO had installed a fishing rod holder in the splash well and the cowling would jam up into it when full up.

:facepalm:

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question

+1 on the tilt switch on the motor cowling, or anywhere near the motor. I'm not as nimble as I used to be, so getting in and out of the boat on the trailer to tilt the motor was kind of a pain.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 150HP Force 1991 tilt/trim question



Here is an Evinrude switch wired in parallel with the factory wiring. I usually like it on the other side but the joker who owned the engine before me drilled the hole there. I hate drilling unnecessary holes so I used it. He also messed the wiring. I was able to use blue couplers and salvage the original push connectors.

Red wire is power to the switch. I was able to route the blue (up) wire inside the shrink tubing but the green wire was simply too much so I zip-tied it on the outside.