19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

[thefdmgroup]

Hi need someones help to figure out how to remedy low bow rise. I have a 1997 19' no name cheap center console open fisherman. (title says its made by Dilks?) Anyways after getting some basic repairs done after purchasing and putting a new to me outboard (1998 Evinrude 88 SPL) we took it out to a calm canal for the first sea trial and it was a very odd ride to say the least. The boat has good acceleration but the bow never really rises and as soon as we are up to speed (30mph + on GPS) it feels like we are pushing the bow into the water. The front of the boat is so low it makes steering and controlling the boat uneasy, now im not sure if we are getting too much stern lift or what the issue but here are the details and some pictures of the boat so you can see. Overall the boat is pretty light with only a front deck and center console with two batteries.

Boat: 19' Moderate V Hull
Engine: 98 Evinrude 88 SPL
Prop: 13.5" x 17P
RPM: 4800 RPM (with motor trimmed to verge of cavitation)
SPEED: 33 MPH
LOAD: Two adults no gear

I need to try and get the RPM's up along with the bow, the ride is very unusual and since I cant find any information on a 19' Dilks its hard to research past experiences.

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

 

[dan02gt]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

A prop with more cup and rake with help with bow lift. A Laser II would work great for that. By looking at your picture in looks like the anti-cavitation plate is buried indicating your motor is too low. What's your prop shaft to pad measurement? Here's how to measure that:

 

[dingbat]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

Your about 1000 RPM under where you should be. Your way over propped or your engine needs help

 

[thefdmgroup]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

Hey guys, thanks for the response first off I need to make a correction we have two props for the boat, First prop (marked PJ90 CUP 102281) had strong hole shot but ran about 34 mph and 4700 rpms with the bow riding even harder into the water, we then switched to the current prop which didn't have as strong of a hole shot but the bow lift issue remained.


Current Prop is actually not a 17 pitch as I thought here is the spec:

Turning Point LE2-1315 (13 3/4 x 15 pitch)

Prop to Pad measurement is 6 1/4" and here are some picture to show the location of the motor.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks again.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

If the bow won't come up "like we are pushing the bow into the water".
The bottom may have a hook near the transom.
Lay a straight edge parallel with the keel any gaps between straight edge and bottom indicates a hook.
If you can't get the bow up that is no doubt affecting the wot rpm.
The 15" prop should rev pretty good on as you say a relatively light boat.

 

[thefdmgroup]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

Well I took a 2 foot level out it seems i've got about an 1/8th gap, not sure if this is good, bad, or what. Would this cause the boat to ride this bad? Truthfully when the boat sits still in the water it rides at the same height as when its going 30+ mph? Has anyone ever heard or experience a DILKS hull, it looks like a Kenner 19 but i'm not positive. Pictures below, thank you for the assistance!!

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

A bit of a hook but not that bad if it doesn't move underway....aka get larger....soft bottom stringers. Engine height is fine. Since you have a trim cylinder showing I assume you have tried various trim positions. Plowing which is what you said you have is caused by the engine not being trimmed out far enough among other things. Agree on getting rpms up at top of rated rpm range and using a high rake prop to help in bow lift.

Different hulls have different characteristics. Usually a deep V with high dead rise at the stern will not show that much of a bow rise on plane. Your hull should.

Mark

 

[dan02gt]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

That hook is going to hurt bow lift some, but a bow lifting prop could help you overcome it.

I think you're motor is to low. Raise to 5.5" below the pad and see if that helps getting your RPMs and speed up.

A jack plate would really help you out. 6" of set back would give the motor more leverage to lift the bow, put the prop in cleaner water, and allow you to dial in the motor height a lot easier.

 

[hwsiii]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

thefdmgroup, I only have a few questions for you. Is that a doelfin I see on the back of your anti vent plate and do you have power trim on that motor and does it work when you try to trim the bow up, or does it not raise the bow or is it leaking down as time goes by.

H

 

[Bondo]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

Well I took a 2 foot level out it seems i've got about an 1/8th gap, not sure if this is good, bad, or what. Would this cause the boat to ride this bad? Truthfully when the boat sits still in the water it rides at the same height as when its going 30+ mph? Has anyone ever heard or experience a DILKS hull, it looks like a Kenner 19 but i'm not positive. Pictures below, thank you for the assistance!!

Ayuh,... Try it again with a 4' or better yet a 6' straight edge,...

'n Ya, it's Bad,... Hook forces the bow down... 'course, so does the whale tail,...

 

[dan02gt]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

One picture shows no hydrofoil the other one when he's got the level on it shows one. If there is one on it try removing it.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

Yes get rid of the foil for now, it surely aggravates the condition.
He states that he is trimming to the verge of ventilation. If we raise the motor it would limit up trim.

 

[hwsiii]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

spike, thanks I hadn't seen that in the postings, just getting old I guess. LOL

One thing I have seen in the past with some hydrafoils is that for different reasons they some of the time aggravate problems instead of curing them, so remove it for now.

If taking the hydrafoil off does not dramatically improve the situation, you will need a prop that has a lot of aft rake and it would be even better if it had cup on the blade tips to get the maximum amount of bow lift and holding power.

My experience with turning point props in the past has been bad, that does not mean they are not good props it just seems that they can create erratic speed and RPM numbers when it comes to using them to replace other aluminum props of like diameter and pitch, and that is mainly because of the rake. Your TP prop does have about 17 degrees of rake which helps raise the bow and if you raise the motor up one more notch there is a good possibility that the boat will ride higher in the water column with less drag from the motor and that could help as well, making it easier for the bow to rise. I know this is counter intuitive, as spike mentions, but the higher the boat is raised in the water column there is less boat surface area and motor drag and thus less trim is needed and it also can help to raise top speeds and the faster a boat goes usually the higher it rides in the water column.

You will also need to drop the pitch to about 13" on a TP prop to get your RPM's up.


H

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

That hook is going to hurt bow lift some, but a bow lifting prop could help you overcome it.

I think you're motor is to low. Raise to 5.5" below the pad and see if that helps getting your RPMs and speed up.

A jack plate would really help you out. 6" of set back would give the motor more leverage to lift the bow, put the prop in cleaner water, and allow you to dial in the motor height a lot easier.

Agree on some of what you said but what pad? I don't see a pad on this boat and for what I see, with no jack plate, aka setback, any change from what he has is not warranted. My opinion, just like yours was yours!

Mark

 

[dan02gt]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

Agree on some of what you said but what pad? I don't see a pad on this boat and for what I see, with no jack plate, aka setback, any change from what he has is not warranted. My opinion, just like yours was yours!

Mark

Pad, keel, lowest point of the v on a non padded boat. Got to measure from somewhere. I come from the world of bass boat they all have a pad so I use the term generically.

I take it you don't think the fact that AV plate is completely buried and dragging that hydrofoil through the water when his boat is at speed it not a problem. It wouldn't be that difficult to raise it a little and test. A 1/4" made a big difference on my old Nitro.

 

[Maclin]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

I do not see any mention of trimming the motor, how does it behave when trimming up or down?

 

[steelespike]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

I do not see any mention of trimming the motor, how does it behave when trimming up or down?

He mentions
trim when listing the rpm "trimmed on the verge of ventilation(cavitation"I knew it was there but had to search to find it just now.
By the way A further indication of possible hull deformation He states "makes steering and controlling the boat uneasy".
I think the boat may be "bow steering" The bow is so far in the water it may spin out if he steers too sharp.

 

[Maclin]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

Thanks Steele, I see it now in the RPM bullet point

 

[Texasmark]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

Possibly his problem is rotted stringers. Makes a lot of sense. I went to Florida once for a personal matter and while there decided to hire a guide and do some local fishing. The boat was wooden and had a sub floor, about 18' and of typical sheet plywood construction. Engine was a blue and white rude of 90 hp. Capt. was about 20 years my senior and I was not a young lad at the time.

We left the dock via a canal and headed for calm water on the West side of Florida south of Pensacola. No heavy water. I couldn't believe my eyes as we left the canal as the bottom of the boat just heaved everytime we surfaced a wave. Couldn't wait to get back to the dock. Caught nothing, the guy said to not pick up anything as it may be drugs, and cost me $200. First and last time for that sort of thing.

Mark

 

[dan02gt]

Re: 19' Center Console with no bow rise, prop issue?

Possibly his problem is rotted stringers. Makes a lot of sense. I went to Florida once for a personal matter and while there decided to hire a guide and do some local fishing. The boat was wooden and had a sub floor, about 18' and of typical sheet plywood construction. Engine was a blue and white rude of 90 hp. Capt. was about 20 years my senior and I was not a young lad at the time.

We left the dock via a canal and headed for calm water on the West side of Florida south of Pensacola. No heavy water. I couldn't believe my eyes as we left the canal as the bottom of the boat just heaved everytime we surfaced a wave. Couldn't wait to get back to the dock. Caught nothing, the guy said to not pick up anything as it may be drugs, and cost me $200. First and last time for that sort of thing.

Mark

Very well could be, and water logged flotation foam to go along with it.