1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

rooooney

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I just came across a nice (in appearance) 57 10 hp to match my 57 crest liner. I rebuilt the carb because it had sat for many years. It seems to run great but when I'm cruising at mid to max speed it bucks real hard every few seconds. It feels like the outboard it hitting the ground (it's obviously not) and the whole boat jumps. I don't even know where to start at this point.
 

nwcove

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

Sounds like you need a new clutch dog.
 

rooooney

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

I just talked to a guy who thinks it's a coil? Does that sound like a possibility? He said it would lose gear and not maintain speed if the clutch dog had an issue.
 

HighTrim

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Jun 21, 2007
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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

Not necessarily. Due to the dog being worn, the motor will jump out of gear, then the linkage will pull it right back in, causing he slamming sound like hitting a stump.

Have the coils been replaced? If they are original, they are junk. Have you also tried richening up the high speed needle?
 

rooooney

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

i'll have to dig in and check out these coils. When I first ran it it had been sitting for quite some time. It was running smooth at about half power but no bucking or banging. I pulled the carb and cleaned it all out this morning. Today it definitely had all power (almost tossed my son out of the boat) but with the issue. I guess I'll try the coils first, that sounds easier (and cheaper).
 

Scurvy Knave

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

classic description of worn clutch dogs. a bad coil will cause you to drop a cylinder, but not likely to occur in and out continuously and only at high throttle. Also, dropping a cylinder would be accompanied by a drop in RPMs. It could be a lean sneeze, but then you would be underpowered and would notice a lack of power at WOT which does not appear to be the problem.
 

lindy46

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

Classic symptoms of a worn clutch dog.
 

kfa4303

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

+1. These old QD motors are kind of notorious for wearing out the clutch dogs. I had the same issue on my QD. Thankfully, it's a pretty easy fix. The tricky bit is getting a new clutch. They're out there, but they can be pricey. Try shopping around on sites like marineengine.com, ebay.com, classifieds on aomci.org, etc... Here are some handy links.

Johnson

1958 Johnson QD-19 10 hp Outboard Motor Parts
 

rooooney

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

I feel like an idiot but I'm having a hard time figuring out what and where a clutch dog is. I'll admit I thought people on this forum were telling me I need a clutch and used the word dog a lot. Is it any of the parts in this diagram on page 12?

Also when i get to it will it be visually damaged so I'm sure it's the issue? Thanks again for all the help. I'm so excited to get this motor running well.

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/vintage-evinrude-johnson/377020/37702000001.htm]Vintage Evinrude Johnson Outboard Parts & Diagrams - Catalog 377020[/url]
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

(Jumping Out Of Gear - Manual Type)
(J. Reeves)

This pertains to lower units on all OMC manual shift outboard engines, or any OMC engine with lower units defined as a Shift Assist or a Hydro Electric Shift unit which incorporates a "Shifter Clutch Dog".

Within the lower unit, splined to the prop shaft is what is most often referred to as a clutch dog, hereafter simply called dog. The dog has at least two lobes protruding from it on both ends, facing both forward and reverse gear. The forward and reverse gears also have lobes built into them near their center area. When the engine is running, in neutral, the gears are spinning constantly via the driveshaft being connected directly to the powerhead crankshaft, but the propeller does not turn due to the fact that the dog is centered between the two gears, and the dog lobes are not touching either of the gear lobes.

When the unit is put into either gear, shift linkages force the dog (and its lobes of course) to engage the lobes of the gear. The lobes of the spinning gear grab the lobes of the dog, and since the dog is splined to the prop shaft, the propeller turns.

The lobes of the dog and gears are precisely machined, most with right angled edges that could be installed in either direction, and some with angles slightly varied that must be installed in one direction only (one end only must face the propeller). Dogs that can be installed in one direction only, if reversed, even if the dog and both gears were new.... would jump out of gear almost immediately. Keep in mind that the lobes are precisely machined with sharp angles!

Due to improper adjustment or worn shift linkages, but usually due to improper slow shifting, those precisely machined sharp edges of the lobes become slightly rounded. Now, with those lobes rounded, as the rpms increase, the pressure of the gear lobes upon the dog lobes increases to a point whereas they are forced apart (jumping out of gear), and due (usually) to the shift cable keeping tension on the engines shift linkages..... the unit is forced back into gear giving one the sensation that the engine has hit something, and the cycle continues.

Some boaters with manual shift engines have the mistaken belief that shifting slowly is taking it easy on all of the shifting components..... Wrong! Shifting slowly allows those precisely machined sharp edges of the dog and gears to click, clank, bang, slam against each other many times before they are finally forced into alignment with each other..... and this is what rounds those edges off! The proper way to shift is to snap the unit into gear as quickly as possible.
 

itsaboattime

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

The clutch dog rides along the prop shaft in a "U" shaped cradle. The cradle is moved on the prop shaft by a basket that is connected to the shift rod. When the shift rod is pushed up or down it pivots and pushes the assembly back or forth on the prop shaft engaging the clutch dog into the forward or reverse gear.
In the diagram below, the clutch dog is number 28.

www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-...=7522&manufacturer=Evinrude&section=Gear+Case

This is for a lower unit from a 7.5 horse of the same year as yours. The parts should all be about the same.
 

kfa4303

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

Hello again itsa. No worries. We're all here to learn. The clutch is just a small ring-like structure on the prop shaft which sits between the two gears (FWD/REV). Flipping the gear select lever on the motor pushes the clutch from one side to other to choose the desired gear. On the clutch itself are two lobes called "dogs". These lobes interlock with the inner surfaces of the gears to engage them. However, after 50+ years of use they can/do wear out. It only takes a small amount of damage for them to become problematic. The fix itself is pretty easy once you have the parts. You'll need a new clutch as well as a lower unit reseal kit, which you can get right here at iboats for about $20. You'll then drop the lower unit, open the gear case, slide off the old clutch, slide on the new one, then re-seal the gearcase and re-install the lower unit. Here are some great links and bids that can help you visualize it all. They're for slightly different models, but all of the steps are the same.

Evinrude / johnson 18-20 hp LOWER UNIT disassembly - YouTube
HOW TO PULL SEALS FROM LOWER UNITS - YouTube
Lower Unit - YouTube
http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-ev...l-kit-1968-evinrude-fastwin-18-hp-601481.html
 

rooooney

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

Thanks for all the help. I removed the LU and now I'm attempting to remove the gearcase. I'm quickly finding out these 50 year old screws have never been out and don't want to ever come out. I have 3 screws that have cost me half a day. I guess I'll drill. Thanks again for the help, I can't wait to see the inside of this thing.
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

Use a hand held propane torch to heat the aluminum surrounding the tight screws, bolts, whatever. This expands the metal (aluminum) and helps to free the screw, bolt, etc.
 

lindy46

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

Or use an impact screwdriver, which you hit with a hammer. Works every time.
 

kfa4303

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

I just had to use both methods to get some old bolts free. Take your time, be methodical and they should come free.
 

rooooney

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

The impact did it. That's a handy tool. Thanks again, this might be the only forum on the internet that wouldn't jump down someones throat for asking about a stuck screw. The dog looks like the edges might be a bit rounded so I'll order one up and pop it in. I should have her running again (i hope) by next weekend.
 

rooooney

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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

The clutch dog rides along the prop shaft in a "U" shaped cradle. The cradle is moved on the prop shaft by a basket that is connected to the shift rod. When the shift rod is pushed up or down it pivots and pushes the assembly back or forth on the prop shaft engaging the clutch dog into the forward or reverse gear.
In the diagram below, the clutch dog is number 28.

1957 Evinrude 7522 7.5 hp Outboard Motor Parts

This is for a lower unit from a 7.5 horse of the same year as yours. The parts should all be about the same.

Yes this site seems to be the only site i can find with with this part but it does not list a 10hp for 1957. The picture of this clutch dog looks different than mine also.
 

itsaboattime

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Re: 1957 Johnson 10 hp bucking and banging

Yeah I saw that too. That's why I used the 7.5 diagram.
In your link above it is number 32. Try calling them at their 800 number and see if they can help you that way. This is the only place I can find it too.
 
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