1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

[HighTrim]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

...and how exactly was it running?

 

[Big Jay]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

OK, I'll check the shift rod.

It was running rough.

At first it was ok, sounding like both cylinders were firing, good rpm with low throttling. But within about 1 minute, maybe 2 it seemed like one plug fouled and all of a sudden I had to keep it at full throttle to to keep it from stalling out. I pulled the plugs at the dock and the No.1 cylinder was pretty soaked with fuel mixture. No.2 was wet as well but nowhere near as bad as No.1.

I checked the coils through the peek hole and they are newer black models and looked to be in decent shape. The points gaps were pretty narrow so I gaped them to .020. They were probably at .016 or .017.

I think I might use my headlights and retrieve the motor from my boat to check the shift rod coupler....
I live in the bush (10Km in the bush to be exact) and it is a very dark night tonight.

 

[Big Jay]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

Brrr... it is not only dark but raining too.

OK, so upon inspection I found the shift coupler to be loose (good call HighTrim, I see you've done this before lol). So I removed the screw closest to the foot and made sure the indent was lined up with the hole then replaced the screw. The indent on the rod closest to the power-head also seems out of align. The indent is too high to engage the screw hole, but I've read in many manuals the only screw to be removed is the lower one. Is this because it's the easiest or is there some pertinent reason for not removing the higher one?

I found the higher screw was also loose... so I tightened it, but I don't know if the miss-aligned indent is going to mess with things

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

Did you then try shifting , will it now engage?

The only reason you disconnect the bottom bolt is so that the coupler stays in the motor and you dont pull it out with you.

 

[Big Jay]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

Did you then try shifting , will it now engage?

The only reason you disconnect the bottom bolt is so that the coupler stays in the motor and you dont pull it out with you.

Ya, it seems to catch now, but it seemed to catch before too. I won't know for sure til I get it out on the water again... I did notice however that now when in forward, there seems to be some resistance when turning the prop between the catch. You know, when you're in gear with engine off you can turn the prop a quarter to a third of a turn before it catches and starts to turn the crankshaft? Well in that play zone, it seems now that it is either rubbing or catching on something, but not when I put it in reverse.... hmm... any idea what that may be?

BTW... I used to play music in Hamilton, years ago. I think the place was called the Derby

 

[Big Jay]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

Here's a question for you...upon closer inspection, I found that there are 2 washers in place beneath the coils on each screw holding them in place. I guess they wanted to lift the coils higher off the armature plate.... but... why ?

Makes it pretty tough to align with the machined boss without the alignment tool....?

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

Hi Big Jay. You can remove the washers if you want, they shouldn't make a difference. You don't need the special coil alignment tool either, really. It's just a metal ring. Just pinch the coils slightly to the center as you tighten down the screws that hold in place. Then place the flywheel back on and rotate it a few times by hand (w/ spark plugs removed) to see if you can feel/hear the coils scraping against the inner surface of the flywheel. Here are some handy links.

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=506678&page=2&highlight=spark+plug+wire

http://www.leeroysramblings.com/johnson_E-FD_15_18hp.html

 

[Big Jay]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

Are you sure? The washers are lifting the coils an extra 3/16nth's of an inch.... won't that affect their relationship with the magnets on the flywheel?

 

[Big Jay]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

Ok, thanks in advance for the replies everyone!

I'm playing music in Ottawa this weekend and won't be back online til Sunday...

Have a great weekend!

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

I've never used any washers that I can recall. However, these old armature plates can have a bit of vertical slop in them so someone may have added the washers overtime to compensate. The best way to find would be to do a little experiment. Install one coil with the washers, and on without, replace the flywheel and rotate it a few times by hand with the plugs removed and see if there is any scraping.

 

[Big Jay]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

That sounds like a great idea kfa...

I'll have to wait til Sunday to try it though...

I just filed the points to a shine, they were pretty crappy looking, but they fit together better than the new BRP ones I installed on my big twin so I kept them.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

sweet. Have fun jammin'. What kind of music do you play? Lots of guitars guys like myself and and other musicians here in the forums. Rock on!

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

You want a bare minimum distance between the coil heel and the magnet. Too large a gap and the spark will suffer. Will still run, just not as well.

The original points are much better than the ones you buy today. I cannot remember the last time that I needed to buy points, I always reuse them after manually dressing them and cleaning in acetone. Alot of the new ones are made overseas and are junk.

 

[Big Jay]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

sweet. Have fun jammin'. What kind of music do you play? Lots of guitars guys like myself and and other musicians here in the forums. Rock on!

Cool...I never would have thought there would be musicians on this forum. I play lead guitar, bass and keyboards for a 3 piece band covering a wide variety of music. Check out our website: www.gravitasmusic.com

 

[Big Jay]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

You want a bare minimum distance between the coil heel and the magnet. Too large a gap and the spark will suffer. Will still run, just not as well.

The original points are much better than the ones you buy today. I cannot remember the last time that I needed to buy points, I always reuse them after manually dressing them and cleaning in acetone. Alot of the new ones are made overseas and are junk.

Not sure you're getting my meaning here Hightrim, the washers have been placed beneath the coils between them and the mag plate. They raise the coils up not quite a quarter inch.

BTW, I tested the shift linkage today and we have all gears working!!!!

Now I just need to figure out why cylinder no.2 isn't firing at all. I had spark jumping +1/4 inch on the tester at home... so we have fire, would a dirty carb allow 1 cylinder to fire but the other?

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

Hello again Jay. A dirty carb won't affect the spark in any way. Check the connections on the bad cylinder. Perhaps the s'plug wire is loose on the coil, or something.

 

[Big Jay]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

Ha!

Looks like you keep the same weird hours I do Kfa lol

I didn't think it would, I'll have to check the lines again. They look old, I may have to just go ahead and replace the period I guess. New coils, you'd think they would've changed the lines too...

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

Most folks tend to reuse/overlook the s'park plug wires when they rebuild the ignition for som reason. Not sure why. Of course, it doesn't do much good to get new points & condensers and coils, only to use the same crusty old wires. If you're lucky, you can snip off about 1/2" from the coil end of your current wires to expose some fresh copper. However, the s'plug wires can/do corrode over time, so don't be surprised if you see green/gray wires instead of nice fresh, shiny copper. In that case, I would just replace them outright and be done with it. You can usually get 7mm COPPER CORE s'plug wires from auto stores like NAPA, or small engine shops for about $2-$3 a foot. They should sell new, crimp-on boots for a couple bucks too. Be sure you twist the new wires on to the coils posts rather than just poking them on there as well. This link may help.

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm

 

[Big Jay]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

Success!

I checked for spark at first and found some, so I thought I was good. But I never tested the plugs themselves, just with a spark tester.
Turns out one of the plugs was shot so I replaced them both. I also rebuilt the carb, not with a kit mind you... but I tore it down and cleaned it with engine tuner and replaced the packing washers as they were absolutely shot and in 3 million pieces making it impossible to set the needlevalves.

So once I got her started she was real lean on the idle setting (coughing a lot). Funny, the manual says to back it out 1 and a quarter turns as a starting point but at that setting she'd hardly run at all... In the end it smoothed out at about 2 and a half turns out, is that weird or normal? The high speed needle recommendation was way off the mark too finally reaching peak operation at about 2 full turns out as opposed to the 3/8th's turn they spoke of in the manual.

Tell me does this sound normal? I'm just so glad she's running, purring like a kitten actually

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1958 Johnson FD-12 Starter Recoil Trouble

The static setting of 1.5 turns out for the low and 3/4 for the high are just starting points. Usually fairly close though.

You may have an air leak, making the system over lean, and by turning out the needles you are compensating for that. Just a possibility. Check all connections and gaskets for leaks.

BTW, what manual told you 3/8 of a turn, a clymer or seloc? lol