1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

[Gnarley]

Hi everyone, yep another newbe here.

I picked up a very clean looking 9.5 with a Glenn's Evinrude repair manual and after working on it I can get it started, however I cannot seem to keep it running.

The person I bought it from only had it a short time and said it was a 1964. It is Model # 9422R and Serial # E16740.

I have an almost new fuel hose and bulb I drained the tank and refilled with 1 gallon 87 octane and mixed it to 50:1. I pulled the top off the carb cleaned all the gunk out including the high speed and idle jets and the needle and seat, the float look old but good. I pulled the flywheel and inspected the points and they were about .010 and set them to .020 at the high side of the cam. The coils look ok and there is no oil to be found from the crank seal, everything is dry. I also pulled the plugs ad they look ok and are gapped at about .030.

I have also removed and cleaned the fuel filter and while trying to start it with the fuel hose off to the carb I observed it squirting fuel out of the hose so I think the pump is OK.

I also needed to replace the pull start cord and reset the recoil, and it works great now.

I set the low speed mixture at 1/2 turn as stated in my Glenn's Evinrude repair manual. The engine is sitting in a tank and after trying to get it started it only fired a few times. Next I used either, yeah I know hard on 2 strokes but I need to know if it would try to run. Well the answer is yes it tries! I will go for about 3-5 seconds before it dies, sometimes spitting and kicking as in a misfire or pre ignition.

I have also started it with 1 plug wire disconnected 1 at a time to verify that each cylinder is running.

Does anyone have an idea of what I may be overlooking? I need more info. I don't think I have missed too much but I am a bit new to the old 2 stroke world.

Thanks for the help

Gnarley

 

[iwombat]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

I'd suggest you do a proper carb rebuild with a soak and a kit.

But before all that you ought to do a compression and spark test (with a spark tester set at 7/16") just to assess things properly.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Agree with all that, except 7/16" is asking a lot from the universal mag. Settle for 1/4" and if you get more, that's fine too.

You probably didn't get the carb clean enough, especially the high speed orfice.

Just for info, the '64 wasn't very good at idle. Terrible excuse for a vibration damper on that one. They shook too badly and the flywheel couldn't carry it over compression at slow speeds because the powerhead just twisted aside, out of the way so to speak.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

change the impeller, squirt premixed fuel in carb if it needs a boost. i've always had good luck with this: http://www.iboats.com/bbboard/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=28;gtid=818798;gpid=818802

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Wondered how you got to the high speed jet with just the top of the carburetor removed?

I've never been able to get any 9.5 motor to run with the low speed adjustment at your stated 1/2 turn out. The least adjustment has been around 3/4 and most are set at over 1 full turn or higher.

 

[Gnarley]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Hey all, I should let you know that I am an engine guy, I was an ASE master technician, certified Jaguar tech and spent quite a few years involved in NASCAR on the west coast from SW tour cars and engines to Winston West. I have a couple of boats, 1 with a supercharged 454 and the other a cruiser with a merc 454, I do know engines.

By the way can I post or link to pictures here?

Wondered how you got to the high speed jet with just the top of the carburetor removed?

I removed the 7/16 screw at the bottom of the fuel bowl and blew high pressure air through it, that is the location of the high speed jet isn't it? I may be mistaken or am missing something but it seemed sufficient to blow air through it. The low speed I tried from 1/4 turn to 9 turns out, no difference.

I'd suggest you do a proper carb rebuild with a soak and a kit.

But before all that you ought to do a compression and spark test (with a spark tester set at 7/16") just to assess things properly.

I thought about trying to remove the carb base, however I couldn't figure out how to remove the igniton cam assembly, the book I have didn't show it very well. Is it really necessary? I'm fine taking the breaker assembly off could you give a clue to what is needed?

As for the ignition test each cylinder ran, that convinced me that each had good spark and compression and seemed like a waste of time. I also started it and continued squeezing the bulb on the fuel hose to keep the flow of fuel going to the engine if the pump was questionable and it made no difference.

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Turning the tiller arm will move the throttle control cam so that you can get to the 5th screw on the float bowl. Putting it in forward gear gives the full range of motion.

 

[Gnarley]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

SUCCESS Pulling the carb off so I could actually see inside the high speed jet was the only thing holding it back from running. :redface:

Even though I could blast carb spray and air through it there was a little piece of debris in there and it must have moved around just enough to plug up the jet yet let the carb cleaner and ait flow through earlier.

I got the gunk out, put it back together in about 2 minutes, primed the pump and gave it a pull and it didn't stop again! A little adjustment to the lean mix and reset the linkage for it and it purs like a kitten now!

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

Gnarley

 

[iwombat]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Glad you got it figured out. I suggested the spark and compression test only because I've disassembled stuff only to find out the problem was really elsewhere too many times. Before I turn a wrench I like to double check the basics.

 

[Gnarley]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Something else that's kind of bothering me is lubrication.

2 strokes or at least these just seem so different is the 2 stroke mix really enough to keep the lower end alive?

What is the best oil to use for for the mix and in the lower unit? I'd like to find something that doesn't smoke much, possibly a synthetic?

Thanks

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

I'm using Pennzoil 100% Synthetic TCW-3. The benefits are less fouling and less smoke. The greater real benefit is the fact that it is biodegradable.

The gear oil in all of my motors is Pennzoil 100% Synthetic Lower Unit Gear Lube. It is 75W-90 and API GL-5.

 

[Gnarley]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Something has changed. What do you think about a miss at idle and at times hard starting? Is something obstructing the idle circuit and I need to clean it out again? Can I insert anything through the low speed jet?

I am pretty sure it idle mix because I can slightly close the choke and the RPM's pick up and it smooths out.

Thanks,

Gnarley

 

[ezeke]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

You don't have a low speed jet, just the needle on the lean rich knob to open and close. Try counterclockwise turn 1/8 turn and run the motor under load.

 

[iwombat]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Have you been under the flywheel and checked out the condition of the coils? Those old coils are notorious for cracked insulation. Hard start and an occasional miss at idle would certainly be common symptoms.

 

[Gnarley]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

I tried going counter clockwise, it didn't seem to help. Turning clockwise really made it kick once I got near the 3/4 turn area. I did have the flywheel off and I was very surprised! Everything really looked new and the coils didn't show any cracks, I did look though it is possible I missed something like I did on the high speed jet!

Can I post pictures here? I'm happy to take a few and share them.

Thanks,

Gnarley

 

[Gnarley]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Hey everyone glad your still here!

I have had my motor on the dinghy a few times and it's run great! However it has also run like cr@p and only on the choke but won't go to maximum RPM while on choke and wide open. So I am trying to determine why it runs great sometimes and bad other times only on choke. I have pulled the plug at the bottom of the carb and inserted a long 5 inch wire inside to try to open up the passage which seemed to help every time I do it. Also when it is running good and I try to use full throttle it starts to bog down at times and then dies and when I restart it I must run it on choke and then clean out the passage again and it will run OK again.

Any ideas??? Could I be getting crap into the carb somehow???

Thanks,

Gnarley

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Maybe you didn't get it all out ... did you soak it in carb cleaner overnight?

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Sure sounds like you know your 4 strokes!

When you have to choke it to help it run it's usually a sign of fuel starvation. It looks like you'll have to redo the carb again.

And I agree with IWombat, I also always do a compression and spark test on all engines.

And I also use Pennzoil fully synthetic tc-w3 oil in the mix. $23/gallon at Wal Mart in the US.

 

[Gnarley]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

I pulled the carb off and found debris in the bowl and cleand it all out again and everything else! It starts and idles ok, but seems to run out of fuel after running at high RPM for a few seconds. I'd like to replace the float and put a kit in the fuel pump as it seems to run out of fuel.

Any ideas what the part numbers for the replacements are and where to find them?

Thanks,

Gnarley

 

[Gnarley]

Re: 1964 9.5 Sportwin starts and dies

Been looking and doing lots of reading and found the superceeded pump at West Marine by Sierra and am going to get it with my port supply discount and picl up a gallon of synthetic tc-w3. I hope this fixes most of the problem!

I'll keep you all posted.

Gnarley out...