1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

[Carb0n]

Ok so I just picked up a 1987 17' Thundercraft Citation with a 1967 Merc 1100 SS out board. The motor runs great and the boat is in really good shape other then the interior that I have to restore. I really dont know much about the boat or the engine but with a little bit of research I found out what year engine I have and here is my question:

The previous owner told me that the reverse was not working. I figured I would be able to fix this with little trouble but am having a hard time finding information on this issue. If anyone could give me any help that would be great.

Here is the information as far as I know:

-1967 Merc 1100 SS
-110hp
-Inline 6
-Serial Number: 2210089

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Have you been on the boat with the motor running and seen what the symptoms are when you try to go into reverse?

 

[Carb0n]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Not yet. Just got it home and started on the interior. Was thinking about putting the boat in the water tomorrow just to see how it does and what it does. The only thing I am worried about is not having "brakes" due to no reverse.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

I'm not being a smart ace, but is this your first boat?

The first thing my Dad told me when he started teaching me about boats was: "It a'int like a car, you don't have any brakes."

Even with a reverse, you still don't have "brakes". You always have to be able to plan far in advance what it is you are wanting to do, you just don't have the capabilities on a boat you have in a car.

If you are putting it in a lake, just idle out to clear water and piddle for a while. The challenge is probably gonna be getting it back on the trailer!

Seriously, there a couple of things you can do with it in your driveway.

Couple of questions:
Is that the boat in your ID? If so, do you have any other pics you can upload?

Is it remote controlled or tiller control? I know that seems like a dumb question for that size boat, but...

If it's remote controlled, is it a Mercontroller? (If not painted, it will be black and say Mercontroller on it. Also, if the controller matches the year model of that engine, it will have a shift arm, and a smaller throttle arm to the side that lifts up.) If not, can you take a pic and upload it?

 

[Carb0n]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Alright smart ace....hahaha This is my first boat. I have driven boats before and spent a lot of time around sale boats. So I know they don't stop like cars do but slipping it into reverse will slow you and help you out. That is all I really meant by that.

It does seem to match the engine but I uploaded some pictures I just took. The previous owner told me that the owner before him had replaced the controls on the boat.

I'm not really sure when or why the reverse went out on the boat but he didn't seem to concerned about it or have much information. He said that the model engine was used for racing and from the factory some of them did not get reverse gears or something along those lines. Not really sure if I was getting a load of crap or not so I took his word for it. He was told that by installing that gear in the lower end you will gain reverse. Im not sure how much truth there is to this.

Here are some pictures:

I know she needs some power washing, paint and some wax but all in all is a very solid boat. Other then the reverse or the lack of reverse runs like a champ.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

DAMMIT!

Can't see the pics at work. When I get home I will look again.

I've never heard that about the reverse on racing motors, blah, blah, blah, but that doesn't mean it a'int true. But smells fishy to me.

Glad you have a sense of humor, it makes owning a boat easier!!!

The thing that most ppl. do that is bad for an OB is go from wide open forward STRAIGHT to reverse. You can tell when they do it because you can hear it grinding the hell out of the reverse gear. It don't take a real genius to figure out that metal grinding is bad. You should always engage neutral and llet the motor wind down to idle before going to reverse if at all possible (not addressing emergency maneuvers here!)

When I get home and look at the pics I can give you a couple of things to try right now to check it out.

 

[Carb0n]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Thank you very much. I have been a member of several forums over the years and I'm glad I have found one for boating that has great resources and awesome members who are more then glad to help out.

I have learned in life that if you don't have a sense of humor your going to have a very rough life.

Thanks again for taking the time to assist me in my diagnosis.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

O.K. You have the newer version of my controller, but essentially the same. But it does tell us right off the bat it is NOT the controller that would have "come with" that motor. Not really a shocker since the boat is an '87 and the motor is a '67. Best guess is that is the original controller, and when the melted down the original motor, they found this one and rigged her up. Although, from the pics, looks like it may not be the original controller either (see those old bolt holes behind you controller??) Either way, the controller SHOULD be able to operate that motor.

First thing to do: with the motor NOT running, shift into FORWARD at the controller. Just push it all the way down like full throttle. Then go to your prop, and spin it CLOCKWISE. It should spin and "ratchet". When you attempt to turn it CCW, it should go 20-30 degrees then stop. You are in forward gear.

Then go back to the controller, shift to neutral. Go to the prop, prop should spin free in both directions. You are in neutral.

Then go to the controller and shift into reverse. Again, put it all the way back as far as it will go. First thing: Does it go all the way back? If not, could be a cable problem, linkage problem, or problem in the lower unit. IF it goes all the way back, then go to prop. Try to spin it. IF you are in reverse, the prop will go about 20-30 degress either direction then lock. You would be in reverse, and in theory, you would not have a problem. If it goes all the way back, and you have what feels like neutral at the prop, the problem is PROBABLY in the lower unit. Which may or may not be as bad as you would think. We'll see, one step at a time!

After you do this, let me know what you got. IF (and I kind of suspect this) it is a controller/cable problem, you will not be able to fully engage backwards at the controller. If that "feels" like the issue (i.e. it won't go far before you feel like you are "forcing" it to go), take a pic of how far back it will go and post it. If I am right, then we'll move on to the linkage issue.

BTW- You need to buy a manual ASAP if you are planning to work on the boat yourself. Everyone here will tell you to buy the Mercury manual. I bought the Clymer, and it's o.k., but I am buying a Mercury one now. I have to do a carb job on my motor, and just don't feel like the Clymer is detailed enough.

Cool little boat BTW, looks like a good project boat to learn on. I'd love to have it!

 

[Carb0n]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

I will be ordering a manual right away. I usually pick one up for anything that I own and work on.

Ok when I put it in drive it did "ratchet" when I turned it clock wise. When I turned it ccw it stopped like you said. When in neutral it would spin both ways. I put it in reverse and it also spun both ways exactly like neutral. Here are the pictures.

Forward

Neutral

Reverse

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

O.K., good news so far, and man, you're quick with that camera. If I get you goin, you gotta explain to me how to upload pics. I'm digitally retarded.

It APPEARS that you are o.k. at the controller (you have equal 'travel'), so, also in theory, you are o.k. with the shift cable as far as travel, and operation. That also means my 'guess' is out the window. On to the next step!

You really need someone to move the controller for you. If you haven't already, take the cowl off the engine. On the port side, bottom, under the powerhead, when your partner moves the shifter back and forth from forward tro reverse, you will see the cable moving the shift arm. It is attached, toward the center of the power head (bottom) to the upper shift shaft. When they move the cable, does the shift shaft appear to move "equally" in both directions? If yes, then we are on to the lower unit. If "no", we have an alignment issue with the cable and shifter. If THAT'S the case, that is where the manual would help ENORMOUSLY, as it has pictures of correct alignment. If that seems to be the issue, I will TRY to walk you through what the manual says. But without pics, might be hard.

If yes, then the lower unit has to come off, and I can walk you through it, or you may want to read a thread I posted on here titled "Forward/Reverse Backward". Some more knowledgable guys than me walked me through that process, and it really educated me. If you have time, reading it may help you too. Basically, it MAY be as simple as mine. Someone, while they had the lower unit off, MAY have fooled with the LOWER shift shaft and got it out of 'sync' with the upper. Wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet. Basically I am walking you through what they walked me through.

Going to bed, check on you in the a.m. Good Luck!

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Oh, and hey, J/C, does your trim work?

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Oh, and as usual I'm a DA and didn't see in your post where you said the P.O. (for some reason I always want to put P.O.S. when referring to Previous Owners...go figure) said the controller was a replacement...

 

[Carb0n]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Here is how I upload pictures....

Grab camera, take pictures, plug camera into computer, open camera folder, drag and drop to computer, go to photobucket.com, click upload, then copy all the links to the forum. Its really easy once you have done it a few times.

Now back to the boat.... I am going to order a manual tomorrow for sure. I will also have to wait until tomorrow to get a second hand to move the controls for me while I check things out under the cover. Because the girl friend would think I'm crazy if I asked her to come outside and play with the boat at this hour.

I will take some pictures and post back with my finds. I was kind of figuring it would be in the lower unit and I'm hoping I can get it figured out and fixed without having to dig to deep into the pockets.

Again thank you for all your help and I will take a look at that post you mentioned. I like to know as much as I can about the toys I have.

 

[Carb0n]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Trim works.

P.O.S sometimes equals previous owner. hahaha

 

[Carb0n]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

I took off the cover and had someone play with the controls a bit. Went from forward to neutral and from neutral to reverse and everything seems to be moving and working just fine.

So im guessing we are on to the lower unit then? I will order my manual when I get home tonight and go from there I guess.

I have my father coming over tomorrow to take a look as he is good with boats and may be able to lend me a hand finding the issue. I will keep you posted and let you know what I find out.

What manual would you say would be the best to pick up?

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Without a doubt the Mercury Manual. I have the Clymer, and it's o.k. Esp. for the simpler stuff like lower unit service. BUT, the Merc manual is far superior, although it is twice the price.

O.K. So now what we pretty much know for sure is that the controller shifts properly, the cable is not bound or seized, and the upper shift shaft seems to be operating correctly. So, we are on to the lower unit, yes.

I posted how to do this once before, and it has been on here alot. It's not real complex but it takes awhile to type. Let me look and see if I can find the thread I posted in and I can copy and paste.

Once you have it off, that thread I was telling you about pretty much outlines EXACTLY what you need to do to try to see if you have ANY reverse at all. If you don't you'll be onto the next step, which is pulling the prop shaft. For that you are supposed to have a special tool, but I've seen ppl on here that know a way to get one or make one, I haven't paid attention b/c I've never had to/wanted to do it.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Here yo go, from another thread:

1. Remove the trim tab (right above the prop) Before you remove it, make some kind of mark so you know where to put it back. (It's not straight, if you will notice...)

2. Remove the nut that is hidden by the trim tab. Yes, many have not know this and done irreperable damage while trying to remove a unit while it was still there.

3. Remove the nut forward of this nut.

4. LOOSEN the two nuts at to front of the lower unit to the top of the threads on the studs. Wiggle the lower unit until it "drops down" onto these nuts. The reason you do it this way is because they sometimes stick, and if you have to put more force on it, you don't want to hurt yourself of the lower unit when it flies off.

5. After it drops down, remove the nuts and then slide the lower unit off.

6. If your engine has reverse lock, remove the plastic seelve at the top of the driveshaft. Look at it first so you know how to put it back.

7. Remove the washer at the top of the impeller housing.

8. Remove the nuts holding the water pump housing.

9. Remove the housing. Check the wear plate. If it looks like #@%&, replace it.

10. Slide the impeller up the shaft. You may or may not have to remove the impeller key to do so. I did not. If you are going to go deeper (into the actual water pump, you will have to remove it. YOu may want to remove it anyway, it's pretty small.

11. Check the wear plate below the impeller, see #9.

12. If you are stopping there, re-install the new impeller. Make sure turning the impeller turns the drive shaft.

13. Reverse your steps up to installing the lower unit. Grease the top of the driveshaft (the splines) and the shift shaft. DO NOT turn the shift shaft while you have the lower unit off. (If you want to know why, look up my thread titled forward/reverse backward. Title should tell you plenty about why to leave it alone!) Before installing it, I would also reccommend you blow through or run a small piece of 14 gauge wire through the outlet tube from the tell tale back through the water tube. A lot of time there are bugs/dirt dobber residue/crap in this hose.

14. When you are installing the lower unit, MAKE SURE you don't force anything! If you do it right, it slides right in. If you force it, you WILL break something. You may have to turn the flywheel by hand SLIGHTLY to align the splines. BE PATIENT. My first time, it went directly back on, second time took 20 minutes.

15. After installation, replace lower unit lube. The proper way to do this is to remove the vent screw (the top screw on the side of your lower unit labeled 'vent'), remove the bottom screw (labelled 'drain'). Pump lube into unit until it overflows out the top hole. Re-install the top screw. Then install the bottom screw as quickly as possible. Yes, you will lose a LITTLE. If it ALL runs out, try again. Do not try to fill it without the top screw removed, you will overfill it leading to larger problems. This is one of the few things I buy into the factory part issue, I use the quicksilver lower unit lube. It's $9 a quart in TX, but I have heard too many ppl. complain about lower unit problems when they used something cheaper. My 50 holds about a pint, so I'm guessing your 70 isn't much higher than that. Atwood makes a handy little pump they sell at Wally World hanging right above the Quicksilver lube. I think it was $7 totally worth it, IMO.

I probably left something off, but I know that's basically it. Best of luck to you!

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Of course, you WILL be messing with the lower shift shaft, LOL.

 

[Jacket4life]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Here's the link to that thread I was talking about. Hope it helps!

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=388816&highlight=forward/reverse+backward

Also, before you bother taking the lower unit off, I would buy 2 quarts of the Quicksilver lube, waterproof grease and an impeller. You will need those while you have the unit off and when you go to put it back.

 

[Carb0n]

Re: 1967 Merc 1100 SS Help

Thank you for all that information. I am going to order the manual now. I will sit and do some reading tonight and see what everything is all about. I will post back when I have some more information. Thanks again.