1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

[Lafy]

I've got a 40ES 69R which has been slowly getting worse at shifting into forward. Until reading through the forums tonight i hadn't realized that the gearcase oil my dad bought was the wrong type for an electric shift... can someone explain how that works. does the wrong oil type only affect forward? it shifts into reverse just fine. i currently have it half ripped apart, and have been testing the 2 wires that come out of the gear case. there is of course no oil in it at the moment, reverse engages, but forward only sort of engages... the question now is do i finish taking it apart to see if there are any worn out parts inside, or do i go buy the right oil and put it back together, perhaps just to have to take it apart again.<br /><br />i also need a replacement for the rubber encased set of wires that go from the upper down to the lower unit if someone has some they could sell me, or knows where to get them... most parts sites i've been to seem to ignore that those wires exist...<br /><br />--Matt

 

[lark2004]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

Ok, ther could be several things here to look at. First off, check the voltage comeing to the lower unit, from the controls. you should get 12volts between the green wire and ground, and between the blue wire and ground. One is for reverse, one is for forward, I can't remember right now which is which.<br /><br />Next, if you have 12 volts getting to the lower unit, check the wires coming from the lower unit. Between each wire and ground, you should get about 6 to 8 ohms.<br /><br />do those tests first, and then let's see where we go

 

[alden135]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

 

[alden135]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=012783#000001 <br /><br />This is the post that I copied from.

 

[lark2004]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

STOP!!!! <br /><br />this link is for HYDRO ELECTRIC SHIFT!!!!!<br /><br />Matt (lafy) has a SELECTRIC SHIFT<br /><br />These are two vastly different drive systems. If you apply 12 volts to both coils at the same time while engine is running, you will break your gearcase!

 

[alden135]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

Originally posted by lark2004:<br /> STOP!!!! <br /><br />this link is for HYDRO ELECTRIC SHIFT!!!!!<br /><br />Matt (lafy) has a SELECTRIC SHIFT<br /><br />These are two vastly different drive systems. If you apply 12 volts to both coils at the same time while engine is running, you will break your gearcase!

It was my understanding that 69'-72' gearcases were Hydro-Electric.

 

[lark2004]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

look up the parts diagram on the evinrude-johnson web site. his model is selectric. heres a link<br /><br /> http://www.evinrude.com/en-US/Accessories/Introduction.htm <br /><br />click on diagrams, choose johnson and click go, scroll down to 1969, open this year, goto 40, open this Hp, choose his model number 40ES69R and then choose gearcase group electric shift . Look real close at the diagram that comes up. That is a Selectric shift gearcase.<br /><br />No offence meant, just trying to make sure Matt gets the right Info.<br /><br />One more thing which would really clarify things, Matt, where is the exaust on your engine? is it through the prop hub, or under the cavitation plate?

 

[lark2004]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

Tell you what Alden,<br />there is a new member JET DOC, who posted he had a 1969 70 hp electric shift. <br />It turns out to be a 74/75 motor, not sure yet, he was missing part of his model number. He has Hydro electric shift, and could really use your help.<br /><br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=034444

 

[Lafy]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

Ok it is a selectric. it is _not_ in gear when no voltage is applied. and as i said it's already taken apart, i'm sure that there were problems in the wiring to the gearcase, that's why i need a replacement wire. but running 12 volts straight from the battery into the little wire ends that come out of the gearcase makes reverse engage, but forward only grips a some times... it has 8.6 ohms on both wires. does it need to be full of oil for the forward clutch to activate properly?<br /><br />is that opening above and behind the prop the exhaust? i'm sure there's no exhaust coming out of the prop....

 

[Lafy]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

what i really want to know is if i should buy the replacement wire and put it back together to see if it works, or if the fact that it doesn't engage the forward gear (with no oil) is an indication that there's a problem besides just the wire.<br /><br />--matt

 

[denislajoie]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

Hi you cant buy that wire anymore, (new) unless you can find it used, or rig up a way to put new ones, but believe me its very hard, because of the oil wanting to come through, and the heat from the exhaust, yuou need to be weary of these things when running new wires, as for your problem i believe that you have another problem, if your wires are good, and the resistance of the coils is good, you might have a broken clutch or shorting, (intermittently) forward coil, the forward coil in in the front of the gearcase, the botom if its in your hands lookinf at you.

 

[lark2004]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

yeah, above and behind, That's where the exhaust is on the selectric shifts, Hydro had a thru-hub exhaust.<br /><br />Denis is probably heading in the right direction with it, I was hopeing for your sake that a clutch spring wasn't broken, but it may be. <br /><br />A new wiring harness can be made, It takes a bit of backyard engineering, but it can be done. Mine is made with silicon insulated wire, The silicone is heat proof, fuel proof, etc... And the wires are fed thru EFI Fuel tube. The OD of the tube is a tight fit into the hole under the water pump that leads down to the gearcase. This is sealed in with permatex#3 gasket sealant. The other end of this exits out of the leg the same way the original harness did, The end of the tube is sealed with Blue RTV Silicone to keep the gearcase fully sealed. The EFI fuel hose is Oil, Fuel(obviously) and heat proof as well. Which should last for a long time.

 

[Lafy]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

i've got the gearcase taken apart now... i dont have a bearing puller so i considering the torch solution to get the forward magnet out... both of the clutch springs look fine... the gears all look fine... are the forward and reverse cluches identical? would it be worth swapping them just in case, or should i focus on getting the magnet out for the forward gear? (as i've said both magnets are 8.6 ohms... )

 

[Lafy]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

crap crap crap, it IS the spring... are the impossible to come by?

 

[itstippy]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

The forward and reverse gear assemblies are not identical. The Seloc manual is really very good on these electramatic gearcases. My pages are full of grease stains from when I had mine apart. If you don't have the OMC manual, Seloc is a good bet. You can order one on the lower left of this page. Here's what they say:<br /><br />MORE GOOD WORDS<br />The forward and reverse gear assemblies are almost identical. However, there is a difference. The forward gear uses a babbitt bearing and the hub is knurled to provide more positive engagement. The reverse gear assembly uses needle bearings and the hub is smooth. The greatest percentage of motor operation is in forward gear with the reverse gear turning in the opposite direction, the needle bearings are used in the reverse hub for more satisfactory operation. Proper gear assembly is extremely critical for satisfactory performance. The hubs are different and are easily identified. After the gears are assembled it is very easy, in a moment of haste, to pick a gear assembly from the bench and install it in the wrong location. Therefore, after the service work on the gears has been completed and they are ready for instalation, identify one with a felt pen marking or with a tag to ensure proper installation.<br />STILL MORE GOOD WORDS<br />If the clutch has been slipping, replace the spring and the hub. It is very difficult to determine what is considered 'excessive" wear on these two items. Therefore, if the clutch has been slipping, the modest cost of the spring and hub is justified in eliminating this area as a possible source of shifting problems.

 

[itstippy]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

Except they don't tell you where you can purchase the spring and hub for "modest cost". Or at any cost!

 

[lark2004]

Re: 1969 Johnson 40 forward cuts out

you can probably get a second gearcase from an outboard wrecker. Use it for spare parts. I know Ebay has some selectric Gearcases, but they aren't cheap.