1972 85HP Johnson Questions

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

I have the same outboard. 1972 85hp Johnson with Hydro eectric shift. It has been a reliable boat up till the water pump stopped working and wasn't replaced by my brother when using it for maybe over a year. I replaced it and worked fine again no more overheating problems and shutting off. I think that caused the stator to fry a bit because it wouldn't charget the battery. I heard that that can also fry the amplifier assembly by giving too much power or something. It has been replaced before a few times by my father the previous owner and wonder if it was because the stator was always a little bad. .. I have more to explain but I am new here and can't figure out how to post on my own. HOW DO I POST MY OWN QUESTIONS? Sorry for posting here
Thanks.

 

[southkogs]

HOW DO I POST MY OWN QUESTIONS? Sorry for posting here.

All Good Josh: I moved ya' over to a new topic so you got one of your own

You need to post a couple more times before you can start your own topic. :welcome:

 

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

Thanks southkogs! Appreciate the reply. I was up all night trying to find my stator for that engine and have been looking for days. Seems to be no longer available everywhere but ebay had one that night out of shear luck!! was reading some of your post. What ended up being your solution to your problem? And what is your new problem? Is it still with the 1972 85hp Johnson??
Thanks again. Cheers

 

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

From what I was reading I woukd have thought it was the Powerpack. .. but from what I see if your stator goes and isn't charging your battery it will keep blowing your Powerpack even if you keep changing it's only putting a bandaid on the problem.

 

[emdsapmgr]

The charging side of the stator has nothing to do with the pulse pack and the ignition side of that engine. Different coils.

 

[wrench 3]

The charging side of the stator has nothing to do with the pulse pack and the ignition side of that engine. Different coils.

A bad rectifier or stator can still put up enough AC currant or voltage spikes to take out a power pack.

 

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

The charging side of the stator has nothing to do with the pulse pack and the ignition side of that engine. Different coils.

Ok yes I did see that they are different coils somewhere. Thanks. I need a stator regardless because iv been stranded due to my battery not charging and then a dead battery not starting the boat so I started with that but want to diagnose the electrical problem before I go buying a bunch of parts which can be useless sometimes. I am my own 'mechanic' iv got many tools and handy hands on with cars and boats. I have replaced the water pump myself with success and other parts. When I bring it to a mechanic they charge me up the wall and never fix the problem. Even sometimes made it worse like had it stuck in reverse! So I have given up on mechanics.. don't trust most even though I'm sure there are good ones out there. I also have the full repair manual for my year and make of motor. Has a complete engine rebuild so helps with everything else too. I will make another post here with the full story of my problems because it all began with a muscrat making a nest one fall in the boat and chewing a couple cables that lead up to the motor and I did a quick, stupid and prob faulty repair job.

 

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

A bad rectifier or stator can still put up enough AC currant or voltage spikes to take out a power pack.

Yes sir, I also read that online and read that high heat is especially bad for these old Johnson models on the stator. My thoughts is that the overheating problem where the engine would shut off before blowing got hot enough to fry the stator over time because my brothers kept going out and driving it not noticing the water pump was broken. But it ran for a whole season at least after that. But I do recall the battery not holding a charge being a problem.

 

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

Appoligize to take up this tread, but here is the full long winded story so everyone knows the whole deal. And like I said it's a Model 85ESL 72R (1972 85hp Johnson with Hydro Electric Shift)
----->because a muscrat made a nest in the back of my boat when sitting and ended up chewing threw the main cables going up to my motor. The positive and negative cables were fine along with a few others but he got through 2 wires in total. Can't remember which colours at this time. So I was stupid and quickly re-wired it with similar looking Guage speaker wire and went to start the boat later. My problem was then the RPMS were very high and I tried to correct with throttle but it was right down at idle and hood was off but didn't seem to be a sticking throttle cable or anything so after a minute or so turned it off. Started it a few days later and same thing happened. That time it may have quit on its own .. but I think I turned it off myself. Next time going to start..nothing. many other times I tried with a new battery and good gas and engine would turn over for a long time but no spark what so ever. Compression was good in all 4 cylinders and ran well before the darn muscrat. I took spark plugs out and connected and turned over but no spark in any cylinder. ANY IDEAS? I thought amplifier assembly because has been replaced before. And I know it needs a stator because it doesn't charge battery for awhile now. I will need to fix my wires properly for sure that may have caused it. Other things could be coil and that's it in my mind other than found there's a 20 amp fuse in ignition system. Haven't replaced anything yet but have the stator on the way. Spark plugs are new, engine is turning over fine, plug wires are fine. New battery, premium gas with oil... SOMEONE MUST KNOW?!? Please help? Been off the water for a few years. Sorry for posting on your forum. Im just new on here and can't post myself I guess yet but itching to get this fixed. On a side note there is good compression in all 4 cylinders last I checked and last it was on the water it ran like new no power issues. Also would like to mention that my step dad gave me a battery to use with reverse polarity so I hooked it up normally but that was opposite. So I think after I switched it didn't start. I think that may have fried something too. I was reading that someone else did this and had an issue to resolve because of it. Thanks for your time everyone and would much appreciate any replies. All opinions are welcome. Still trying to track down repair manual after a move. May buy a new one online.
Thanks again!!

 

[emdsapmgr]

You may have fried the rectifier when you connected the leads backward. Consider replacing the rectifier before you replace the stator. Also, double check the 20 amp fuse in the main wiring harness. If it blows, the entire engine will be dead-till the fuse is replaced.

 

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

You may have fried the rectifier when you connected the leads backward. Consider replacing the rectifier before you replace the stator. Also, double check the 20 amp fuse in the main wiring harness. If it blows, the entire engine will be dead-till the fuse is replaced.

Thanks for the help. I already bought the stator so should I install that and test it first? Is the 20 amp fuse easily accessible? What do I need to test the ignition system? I have a voltmeter. I'm worried about replacing a part then trying to start the motor and it frying it again. Am I correct in saying I can test every component of the ignition system to see if the proper voltage or current is going to the next component of the ignition system? What do you think about the muscrat chewing the cables and a high Rev after an improper repair?

 

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

Last thing I want to do is go replacing a bunch of parts before I tested to see what needs to be replaced because for all I know none of those will fix my problem.

 

[racerone]

On the 72 model 85 I would start with removing the flywheel.---Then the stator and distributor cap.------Then rotor.------Now inspect the anti-reversing spring.--------Clean and set the points.------Clean rotor and distributor cap.-------replace the wee rubber boots on the wires ( a bit spendy ) and see if there is spark.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Most charging parts get fried when one of two things happen: 1. the battery gets hooked up backwards. 2. the terminal connections on the battery get loose and can't make solid contact when the battery is trying to charge. Check the small 20 amp fuse first. It's the one by the starter solenoid in the main harness. It may look like a bugle in a rubber connector. Actually there is a midget 20 am fuse inside. If the fuse is ok, repl the rectifier and start it up. See if the battery voltage begins to show a charge after running at high idle for 15 minutes. (the voltage should go from 12.5 to over 13 volts, if charging properly.) If you only get battery voltage the whole time you are running, then replace the stator.

 

[wrench 3]

The rectifier is easy enough to test. Connect one lead of your ohm meter to the wire from the stater ass and the other to the base of the rectifier. If it's a digital meter use the diode test position and the rectifier leads have to be disconnected from the engine. Take a reading and then reverse the leads. You should have continuity in one direction and none in the other. Next do the same test using the wire from the stater again and the wire going to the starter solenoid.
If either test has no continuity in either direction, or has continuity in both directions, then the rectifier is bad.
It can also be tested with a test light and a battery.

 

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

Most charging parts get fried when one of two things happen: 1. the battery gets hooked up backwards. 2. the terminal connections on the battery get loose and can't make solid contact when the battery is trying to charge. Check the small 20 amp fuse first. It's the one by the starter solenoid in the main harness. It may look like a bugle in a rubber connector. Actually there is a midget 20 am fuse inside. If the fuse is ok, repl the rectifier and start it up. See if the battery voltage begins to show a charge after running at high idle for 15 minutes. (the voltage should go from 12.5 to over 13 volts, if charging properly.) If you only get battery voltage the whole time you are running, then replace the stator.

Ok so I checked the 20 amp fuse and it doesn't look fried. But was thinking I should go back with my multimeter and check that there is no resistance through it making sure it is good. I have no spark at all even with a very good battery cranking fast for 30 seconds straight or more. Will replacing the rectifier/ regulator give me spark? I thought it just converted AC to DC to charge the battery? I looked up how to test the stator, rectifier, coil etc. With a multimeter. Will a bad stator cause a no spark condition? Charging the battery is the least of my worries at this point. Have to get the engine started first.

 

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

The rectifier is easy enough to test. Connect one lead of your ohm meter to the wire from the stater *** and the other to the base of the rectifier. If it's a digital meter use the diode test position and the rectifier leads have to be disconnected from the engine. Take a reading and then reverse the leads. You should have continuity in one direction and none in the other. Next do the same test using the wire from the stater again and the wire going to the starter solenoid.
If either test has no continuity in either direction, or has continuity in both directions, then the rectifier is bad.
It can also be tested with a test light and a battery.

Thanks for the advice. I looked that up elsewhere before I read your post and they say the same as you. I will go back to the lake and test that. You seem to know your stuff so next question is will a bad stator cause no spark? Will a rectifier cause no spark as well? Or does it just charge the battery? And how do I test my stator with multimeter? I've found some videos that explain it.. but not sure if that's the same for my outboard or not. Iv heard I need the DVA for my multimeter... but I can test with regular multimeter with the stator removed... correct?

 

[racerone]

This motor has a battery powered / amplifier ignition system.-----Not to be confused with the magneto powered " magflash " system that was installed in 1973 and later motors.

 

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

So I tested the 20 amp fuse in the ignition system and it is good, no resistance with multimeter. Today I also tested the rectifier and it is bad. There is only a reading in one diode of 450ish and the other three are no good. So I will order the rectifier, but as far as I know that will not help me get spark. So next i need to test the stator, coil along with the Powerpack. I rented a flywheel puller, but didn't have a large enough socket to remove the flywheel nut with. The adjustable wrench didn't work and will have to wait to test the stator and check the points etc. I do have a new stator due to arrive any day now anyhow to replace regardless. I will have to remove the coil from the distributor cap still to test it as well.

 

[Josh1972-85hp-Johnson]

This motor has a battery powered / amplifier ignition system.-----Not to be confused with the magneto powered " magflash " system that was installed in 1973 and later motors.

Yes I am aware of this. I have the "Tune up and repair Manual" for this range of engine. But hard to find all the info on troubleshooting in here. Will a bad Powerpack cause a no spark condition in all of the plugs? This ignition system has only the one coil and distributor cap so I figured it's likely the coil and or stator causing the bad spark. Likely got fried when the battery terminals were commented in reverse and cranked over the engine for awhile.