1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

kfa4303

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

HI scuba. It sounds like you're close. I think you're still getting some kind of "lean sneeze". I think that your low speed needle may be having some issues. You should notice a huge difference between the 1.75 - 3 turns. Even an 1/8 of a turn can make a big difference. Once you've double checked the ignition, check the lo speed needle on the carb again. That 18 hp is plenty of motor for your boat. My 20 hp gets my 14' tinny on plane with ease. Hang in there. Once you've got the gremlins sorted out it'll be good to go for years.


http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm (great ignition link for OMC motors)

http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/johnson_QD.htm (great link to get the 10 hp running again)(I used to have a '61 QD-22. Well worth the effort to keep running)

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167352
 

scuba_redneck

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

Thanks a ton to everyone who has responded so far! kfa4303, would air leaking past the needle cause this lean sneeze? also I just remembered that my carb was missing part number 41 and 35 on the carb exploded view at http://www.marineengine.com/parts/j...304A&manufacturer=Evinrude&section=Carburetor . I havent figured out how to get part number 41 in there yet but I believe that once I get it in that it will begin to shape up. I am only able to work on it during the weekends due to this little thing called a bachelors degree that I am attempting to earn at Mississippi State University. It has been a great litttle weekend project/ learning experience for me in working on outboards. I have learned much from going over this engine. I will get that part on this weekend, see how it runs, and post back my results.

Also, once I get the flywheel off, how do I ensure that I do not mess up the timing when it comes time to put it back on?
 

kfa4303

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

BINGO!!!! I think that college must be paying off. You've found your problem. Parts 35 and 41 are absolutely vital and necessary to forming a tight air seal. Without them your motor is essentially "sucking wind". As a result it's drawing in too much air and causing a lean condition (i.e. too much air, not enough fuel). Until you get those 2 parts you won't have much luck. You can order them from the link you gave, or find a donor carb and scavenge them. Once you get those fixed she'll fire right up! As for the timing, don't worry about it. When you replace the flywheel there is a slot that lines up with the crankshaft woodruff key. Once the flywheel is installed correctly, the timing is essentially set. You'll still need to set the point gap to .020", and do a "link and synch", but the overall timing will be ok.
 

scuba_redneck

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

AWESOME!!! I can't wait to get back to the shop and get those parts in! I saw them in the rebuild kit and tried to put them in but the seat didn't want to fit in nor did the retainer want to thread. I can understand why now. It has to be a tight fit. I will get them in asap and hopefully have a great motor! Quick question, after sealing it up with those parts, will the top end performance pick up also?
 

scuba_redneck

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

any tips on the link and synch? I have looked around to find out what it meant but have come up empty every time. I am a fairly mechanically inclined guy and can figure things out if I can get pointed in the right direction with a tad bit of assistance :D
 

kfa4303

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

"Link and Synch" just refers to coordinating the amount of gas being delivered by the carb to the proper amount of spark by the motor. No good dumping more gas in the cylinder, if it can't be ignited properly. As the butterfly valve on the carb opens to deliver more gas, you want/need to fire the plugs more frequently. When you twist the throttle it turns the armature plate which causes the motor to fire more frequently. At the same time, there is an adjustable crescent shaped cam on the front of the armature plate that pushes on a roller. This roller is "linked" to the butterfly valve on the carb so that the motor fires more often it gets more gas simultaneously. I found this post from the might Joe Reeves, so I'm just going to copy and paste the link and synch procedure here:

Joe Reeves:

" Timing is set by the flywheel/crankshaft key. If the key isn't sheared, the engine is in time.

The full spark advance is also set.... the armature plate (plate the points are on) turns as you apply throttle, and continues to turn until it hits a stop built in on the block. There is no adjustable full throttle spark advance setting.

The rod linkage leading from the armature plate to the throttle cam roller? Read on.......

(Synchronization Of Older 2 Cyl Engines)
(Such As The 28, 33, 40hp Etc models )

On the linkage that runs from the armature plate (the plate the coils & points set on) to the carburetor throttle roller, loosen the set screw on the brass collar that you see there and temporarily move it away from the armature plate/vertical throttle arm clevis (clevis is that thing the linkage rod slides through). We'll refer to that vertical throttle arm/armature plate clevis simply as the "clevis" from this point on.

Look at the cam that's attached to the front of the armature plate.... the cam that slides up against the carburetor throttle roller. You'll notice that there's a scribe mark on it. Also notice that at the top portion of the intake manifold there is a raised portion, that top portion forming a point. The carburetor roller should contact the cam and just start to open the throttle butterfly when the scribe mark is dead center with that point.

With the engine in gear (not running of course) have the armature plate advanced all the way (by hand) so that it is up against its stop. Now adjust the brass collar (set screw) on that associated linkage rod so that it is up against the clevis. It should be adjusted so that there is either no play, or just a hairs play between the collar and the clevis.

At this point, the armature plate movement is not advancing the throttle butterfly via the rod movement, but further movement of the throttle control, although the armature plate cannot move any farther, causes the tension spring at the armature plate to allow the vertical throttle arm to move farther which now advances the carburetor throttle butterfly via the rod. When fully advanced (full throttle), the carburetor throttle butterfly should be fully opened (horizontal).

If all else with your engine is as it should be, that should do it.

And..... don't take your engine to that fella again (grin).

Oh, also.......

(Point Setting Of Magneto Models)
(J. Reeves)

Set the points as follows. Have the flywheel key aligned with the fiber rubbing portion of the ignition points. Adjust the gap so that a .020 gauge will pass thru but a .022 will not. Should there be any question of the points being dirty (touching the contact with your finger would cause them to be dirty), clean them with a small brush and acetone or lacquer thinner.

NOTE: Should the operating cam have a small portion on it with the word "SET" imprinted, align this portion with the fiber rubbing portion instead of the flywheel key. "



Holler if you get stuck again. You'll get it!
 

samo_ott

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

Yes, you'll definately want to use the 847 sealer. Also apply a light coat around the screw holes as well. If you ever seen an oxymoron, then the splitcase gear halves are one of them. Why did they design it, to where the screws are on the inside of the spagetti seal and not on the outside? DOHH!!:rolleyes:

I know. That drives me crazy every time I do a LU!
 

AlTn

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

part no. 35 may well be in the needle valve passage and is probably ok unless you soaked the carb in a cleaner not compatible with plastics...definitely need #41....must be some kinda virus speading across the US affecting those exciter coil ignitions
 

scuba_redneck

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

When I was rebuilding the carb, I looked down the passage where the slow speed adjustment needle goes and I saw neither part number #35 nor #41. I saw them in the kit but did not know what to do with them. I was able to get part #35 in but was not able to thread the needle through #41 so I left it out. OOPS!!! Long story short, the engine idled better with #35 in but still did not run like it was supposed to. As soon as I get to the shop today I am going to make #41 thread and take it out on the water. I'll check the points after that. If I am lucky, I will not have to do anything to them. On the other hand it would not be a bad idea just to check them out for general knowledge sake. If I have to replace them, the local NAPA parts house has them in stock, so no worries there. I'm looking forward to running it around a bit this afternoon!
 

kfa4303

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

Keep us posted scuba. I love NAPA too. If they don't have the parts in house they can usually get them within 24 hrs from the warehouse for FREE! Other folks haven't had as much luck with them, but they've never let me down. Here's the carb set up procedure again just in case. Good luck! Vroom-vroom!

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167352

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...hnson 5.5 HP 1954-1964 Carburetor Tune-UP.htm (not your exact motor, but a handy link all the same)
 

scuba_redneck

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

Haha that first link has been my bible throughout this rebuild. I do not know what I would do without you guys!
 

scuba_redneck

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

Well, I have the part #41 in and... DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!


















IT STILL IDLES LIKE CRAP!!! !@#@$#$#@#$@#$@!@#

Ok, frustration released.

But seriously, I have adjusted the slow speed adjustment needle very slowly stopping at every 1/8 turn for 30 seconds trying to get this motor to idle. It will go good for a bit then sputter and spit out. Both (brand new) plugs are royally fouled out. I have the flywheel off and am going to replace the points tomorrow. However for now I am going out on the river to massacre some catfish and release some steam. Ill be back in the morning with updated results.
 

kfa4303

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

@#$@#$@#!!!! hmmmmmmmmmmm...........When you adjust the needle is it very loose and spinny, or does it feel nice and solid. Part 41 must be snugged down, but not too much in order to control the amount of friction on the lo speed needle. If the plugs are fouling that makes me think it's running too rich. Perhaps, your float needle is stuck in the open position. Either way cleaning and resetting the points should help. Just make sure they are 1000%, absolutely clean and free of any debris or oil. Here's a handy link that should help. Stick with it. I promise your efforts will be rewarded.

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm
 

scuba_redneck

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

Well, the fishing trip went well. We caught 20 catfish and 1 crappie. The points and condensers went in well and the motor is actually wanting to idle for more than 30 seconds now. I was able to sustain an idle for almost 2 minutes before it sputtered to a stop. The lower unit reseal was a failure. There was milky white oil in the LU when we checked it and the clutch dog did not respond well to being turned around. It looks like it may be time for a new set of gears and a new clutch dog. The boat was *this* close to planing out before it started popping out of gear. Does anyone have any idea how to get part #39 and #40 out of the gearcase? http://www.marineengine.com/parts/j...18304A&manufacturer=Evinrude&section=Gearcase is the schematic. I am going to attempt another reseal of the LU with more 847 this time. I think I was a little stingy with it last time. I am getting close to having this 18 up and running, but it is not wanting to come easy.
 

samo_ott

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

#40 is the bushing that holds the shifter O ring in (#41) . Yes, it is very impt to change the O ring. If you search on the forum you will find many posts on how to pop the bushing out. Basically you need a 5/16"s rod a foot long or so, Grind it down to a 1/4" taper at one end and then tap it out from the bottom.

#39 is an oil seal. Start off by using a standard seal puller from an parts store. Eventually it wont do any more and then you will need to get a small screwdriver and a hammer and start breaking it up. Just don't scratch the bore it's in.
 

AlTn

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

fwiw F_R makes a bushing removal tool for #41 if you want to pm him. D/S seal removal..as Samo states but would add if using a seal puller try to keep something under the fulcrum point so you don't chip or gouge the lip that the w/p wear plate sits in. Dog and gear..have you checked around to see if a machine shop can repair them? I recently had this done at a cost of $96 total for both on a '71 25 hp. evinrude. Also, if the d/s has a worn spot in it where the seal was, try to get the new seal in a little higher or lower so as not to run in the same area.That's my 2 cents worth of experience.
 

kfa4303

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

Hello again. Glad you got the ignition all sorted out, but it sounds like the old clutch dog may have given up the ghost. While you can certainly buy one for retail, check aomci.org first. Maybe one of the fellas over there can hook you up with one and, maybe some gears, for cheap. As far as the idle goes, while it's great that it idles for 2 min., it should be able to idle indefinitely. Try either backing out the lo speed needle an 1/8 of a turn and/or dialing in the idle set screw about 1/4-1/2 of a turn inward to advance the spark a smidge. Here's a great link that can walk you through a reseal job as well as a link to a series of vids of a guy rebuilding his entire motor, including the LU and seals. He's a little Yankee-fied, but we won't hold that against him ;) Holler if you get stuck.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=277190&highlight=lower+unit+seal+kit+installation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6xghWrEmSU&feature=BFa&list=UUqtXoVOxjtEKjjTKj0cFydg&lf=plcp
 

scuba_redneck

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

I have a cousin who owns a machine shop in amory. I am going to take my clutch dog and forward gear to him to see if he can resurface the engagement surfaces. When I had the flywheel off replacing the points and condensers I noticed that there was only one coil underneath there. Is this normal? Every other picture I have seen has had two coils. Also, on the top coil on the back of the motor, the spark plug wire seems to be loose ie. wanting to come out. It is looking like a good candidate for replacement, however I really want to get the LU sealed up and fixed before I go back to the powerhead. This loose wire could be the cause of my idle problems. Something about it, engines do not run quite like they are supposed to when only 1 cylinder is firing correctly. I have turned the slow speed needle to about 1.8-1.9 turns out and it seems to have responded nicely. I believe that I am getting very close to having a properly tuned fuel mixture. As far as ignition goes, I believe that replacing the wires and coils will eliminate the rest of my idling problems. The points that were pulled out definately had wear on them and needed replacing. I am going to make the 5/16" to 1/4" rod this weekend and get those old seals out. Fingers crossed that this reseal works this time!!!

kfa4303- In response to on of your previous questions, the ss adjustment needle is very tight within the carburetor. I feel that the air leak is fixed and I am now dealing with an ignition issue.
 

AlTn

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

your ignition system is from the years transitioning from the universal magneto to the CDI ignition system...I don't know the proper name for it, but you have 2 sets of points and an exciter coil under the flywheel, with 2 external coils as well....the dog and gear repair consisted of welding and grinding the mating surfaces back to contour
 

kfa4303

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Re: 1973 18 hp Evinrude starts out running great, but slips out of gear

yeah, around '73 they started "improving" the much loved universal magneto, but I believe you can convert yours back. I think you may need a new/old flywheel, but I bet one from the models years leading up to yours would probably work. If you do a search here in the forums you'll find some threads of folks who have converted their electronic ignitions to magneto and vise versa. Glad the lo speed needle is snug. You should just be able to adjust it by hand and have it stay put. Here's a link that explains the transitional ignition systems too.


http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/johnson_9.9_magneto.htm
 
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