1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

[WhidbeyBob]

Hey Guys,

First post...been lurking here since my wife found a 1973 21' Starcraft Cuddy on clist about a week ago. I'm not sure which model but it has a 165 HP Mercrusier I/O. He?s asking $3000 for her. Here is the link to the add http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/boa/1742489594.html

Using the questions from Jasoutside's thread about boats on clist here are the answers I got when I called up the current owner.

What year is the boat? 1973 (I added this question)

Does it have the original paint? No. He painted it about 5 years ago. I?m not thrilled about the color. Maybe it looks better in person.

Does it leak at all? How much? Yes, it leaks a little. Bilge pumps keep up with the seepage. He had it out on the water for a week recently and never had a problem with water.

What condition is the floor? Is it original? Any soft spots? He rebuild it about 5 years ago using marine grade plywood.

How about the transom ? is it solid or soft? It was replaced about 5 years ago using marine grade plywood.

What?s the winterizing process been on the motor since you?ve owned it? Motor has not been winterized he runs it all year round but does routine maintenance.

How often have you changed the drive oil? Didn?t ask?I was getting excited and skipped over it.

How long has it been since you?ve changed the impeller? Didn?t ask?I was getting excited and skipped over it. (Even with the question right in front of me I couldn?t focus enough to ask?not a good sign. I think whatever you guys have is contagious across the internets.)

What?s the temp of the engine after it?s warmed up? Runs good never had a problem with motor.

What?s the compression on all cylinders? Didn?t have any need to check. It runs good.

So, I?m headed over to check it out but before I do...what do you all think?


Thanks for the input.

-Bob

 

[Daltonxj]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

Yep you got boatitise! and it's not curable only gets worse and then turns into biggerboatitas... LOL

 

[Pugetsound]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

Whidbey ! In this area that is a special price, if the boat is good to go. I paid 4000 fo a 22 Holiday 3 summers ago and felt it was a bargin. I have had no issues with it to date. Those east coast guys live in a Starcraft meca. and the are very low priced. I use my 22 in the San Juan's a lot and on the Skagit river in the fall. Its a b--- to load on the river but I am restoring a 16 super sport that I hope will be ready by fall. The condition of the whole package should tell a lot of how it has been maintained. We get a few more here we can start a fleet.

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

It sounds like a nice boat, and if he has used it regularly it may be in great running condition, sounds like he took care of it.

The hull itself is a real gem. Those old Starcraft cuddies are some nice rigs.

Good luck!

 

[WhidbeyBob]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

Went and took a look at the boat. She?s in pretty good shape. A few dings but nothing serious. She started up with the slightest bump of the key and purred like a kitten. She was stripped down when the current owner rebuilt her?you could tell she had a galley at one time. The deck is a little small. If the cabin was a couple feet shorter so that more than 2-3 people could fish off her it would be better. The yellow isn?t any better in person. I?m thinking I?m going to pass on this one. Not a definite ?no? yet but getting there.

We?d like a small cabin for camping and a bigger deck for cruising with the family when they are around. Being empty-nesters it would be just the two of us most of the time but it would be nice to have the option to load everyone up and run over to Port Townsend for the afternoon or up to the San Juan Islands for the weekend. You couldn?t do that in her current configuration. Not comfortably anyway.

I?ll keep looking?I do like the look of these old Starcraft cuddies.

Thanks for the input.

-Bob

 

[Pugetsound]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

Sorry to hear that but you know what you want. To bad that is not a Outboard as it probably would have fit the need if it was. My 22 Holiday has a Outboard and I removed the rear full width seat for fishing I can always set it back in for a cruse. There is Plenty of room in the boat. My friend in Mt Vernon has a 18 Islander That Has the outboard and he has a larger family . He likes it but has said he might sell it . Every year but he still has it. good luck looking. Prices are sure higher here than the East coast. There are a lot of nice boats in the Idaho posting East of Spokane and around Hayden Idaho.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

Hey Bob!

Looks like you have passed on that rig but a couple of things that I am left to wonder on it in case you go back...

Did he seal up the transom and deck with epoxy when he replaced them?

Does it not freeze in Seattle?

Was this a salt boat? If it is, how often did he flush? (I think that is important)

Cool!

Hey, if you are looking for a bit more deck room and a little less cabin than you ought to be checking out the Islander series, eh! A big Holiday would be sweet too, but no real cabin.

Have fun!

 

[WhidbeyBob]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

Hey Bob!

Looks like you have passed on that rig but a couple of things that I am left to wonder on it in case you go back...

Did he seal up the transom and deck with epoxy when he replaced them?

Does it not freeze in Seattle?

Was this a salt boat? If it is, how often did he flush? (I think that is important)

Cool!

Hey, if you are looking for a bit more deck room and a little less cabin than you ought to be checking out the Islander series, eh! A big Holiday would be sweet too, but no real cabin.

Have fun!

Jas,

Answers to your questions and a few thoughts...

From what I could tell he didn?t seal up the transom or deck when he replaced them. He covered the floor with some sort of sheet vinyl stuff that was coming up in a couple of corners. He also didn?t replace the flotation under the deck.

The side panels look original.

It does freeze in Seattle but usually not for long. He parked the boat under cover in its own carport?one of those PVC and vinyl jobs. Does parking a boat in a carport makes it a ?boatport?? Whatever you want to call it, she was well protected when parked.

He ran her primarily in salt water and flushed fresh water thru the cooling system when he got her home. He lives just down the street from the Duwamish River that runs into Elliott Bay. (for those that don?t know Elliott Bay is the bay downtown Seattle sits on) From there he ran it all over the Puget Sound. Lake Washington is just over the hill from him too.

The guy's house and yard were immaculate. So, taking care of what you own is not a foreign concept to the current owner. (He also has a really cool '50 Ford F100 PU that he converted to a hotrod (lowered and chopped) sitting under cover next to the "boatport". He was asking $12K for it.)

There is a pretty good ding on the prop. What does a replacement prop cost?

There were no jump seats next to the dog house, like I?ve seen on a lot of these I/O. And the pedestal seat on the port side could be replaced with a bench. That would give you seating for 5. The jump seats could be made for easy removal when fishing.

It would be nice to put the galley back in and a head would be a requirement for the missus.

The more I told the wife about the boat the more she saying the heck with the kids. So, the prospect is not entirely dead.

Am I talking myself in to buying this boat?what?s happening here.


Bob

 

[jasoutside]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

Man that is a bummer he didn't seal it up. I am sure that all of it would last a very long time so long as it is out of the weather, but, it would last virtually forever if it was sealed up with epoxy. That would have surely been the best time to do that - when it was all tore out, ya know.

I am confused about not winterizing it, but than again, I am quite the rookie. It doesn't take much of a freeze to bust up a perfectly good motor.

Outside of those two head scratchers I'd bet he took pretty good care of her, it seems like guys are pretty consistant when it comes to cars, tools, lawns and boats (for the most part).

I am thinking sub $3K range for a west coast boat would be a pretty good deal, eh!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

Nice boat for a nice (west coast) price. My buddy just bought an outboard version of the same boat and I agree the deck area is a bit small but the cabin is huge and would be great to camp in. I don't think you'd find a 21' cabin boat that would be as easy to own

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

I have the 1986 version, it is very comfortable sleeping 2 adults and you could fit 3 if you wanted to be cozy. My wife and I have slept in ours for the last 5 summers when we go to the coast fishing. The kid sleeps with the grandparents. Fishing area is adequate for 4 adults but no extra room. I have the 4 cylinder I/O, which give you more room to fish.
I payed $4500 for mine 5 years ago, then found out it had an old engine and outdrive, floor was soft and transom was in poor condition. As of today I have a new floor, new seat pedastals, new engine, new transom, new sei outdrive, and some other tlc stuff like fuel lines, clean fuel tanks and such. It is easy to trailer, mine weighs 4,000 lbs on the trailer axles, so I would check the trailer rating. My trailer is alittle light, it has a pair of 2,000 lb axles. The 4,000 lbs is fully loaded with fuel, fishing gear, bicycle, fishing weights, 25hp kicker motor, 6 gallon fuel for the kicker.
Others have seen the attached picture, but as you can see very similar boats.I bet yours you are looking at is a 21' cheiftain

 

[mccurtis]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

I suggest you check out Starcraft islanders made from 1971 to 1980. I have a 1971 and there is plety of deck room for my family of 5 to fish ahd camp out on the lake The link below will connect you to all the islanders listed on craig's list and ebay in the US. I also hope the picfures included wil give you some ideas. The canopy on the boat is great for camping and easy to take down. This boat is also easy to work on . We also have a porta potty on board in the cabin. You can't stand up in the cabin but there is plenty of room to sit or sleep.We cook on board with a 12 volt oven and a prapane barbque that hangs out over the gunnel (side of the boat). We can easlily seat 6 adults with the 2 pedistal seats we have for the boat. You can also sit up on the bow if you want.

If I was going to get a cuddy cabin like the boat you were looking at I would get a 25' Starcraft Chieftain.


http://boat.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/boat....l=islander&state=&ps=&pe=&ys=&ye=&submit=+GO+

 

[WhidbeyBob]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

@elkhunter ? after looking at all the gorgeous rebuilds on this forum, Chieftan was the conclusion I came to as well. I was wondering about the trailer this one is sitting on. It seems a little light with the single axel. Most all the other bigger boats I?ve seen on here have dual axle rigs. Something to consider?

@McCurtis ? an Islander with the smaller cabin would probably fit our needs better. Thanks for the link, very cool and very convenient.

The wife and I will talk more on this boat this weekend and see if this will work for the time being. We would like something for this season and maybe next before she needs any major work?"she" being the boat not the wife.

Thanks for all the info and advice. You guys rock.


-Bob

 

[DucatiDave]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

Hey Bob,

Here's my 2 cents. Your situation sounds similar enough to mine that my experience might be illustrative.

The Islander had a better cockpit-to-cabin ratio for our use than did the Chieftain. On our 22-footer, the open area is about 5' x 11'. The cabin is mostly for storage and use as a "powder room" for wife and daughters. It could sleep 2, but I placed greater importance on the additional exterior room for fishing/tubing/cruising. I've got the 6 cylinder 165hp motor which takes up more cockpit space than I'd like, but I had heard that the smaller 4 cylinder motors were sometimes only adequate power-wise. Since I planned on at least some tubing and possibly some skiing, I was OK with the 165.

Just to give you one more data point, I paid $2,100 for a boat that I think I should be able to use for the next year or two before I dive into any major refurb. The condition of mine sounds perhaps a bit rougher than the one you were looking at, so the $3,000 doesn't seem too far out of line to me.

Hope this helps.

Dave

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

based on the weight of my cheiftain 21' 1986, as I stated loaded with fishing gear and fuel, I am 4,000 lbs on the axles. My trailer only has axles rated for a total of 4,000lbs (2-2,000 lbs), tires are 12" are only rated 1050lbs per tire. So I am running at max.
Most single axle trailers are 3500lb axles and tire rating ?.
My trailer was build with galvanize c-channel that looks heavy enough, this winter I reinforced the tounge and added some lenght with a removable tonge extension. My trailer was for upto a 19'boat. I plan to add a pair of 3,500 lb axles some day in the future. I am still contemplating brakes. Brakes in salt water cause issues, and the expense is not cheap, but at 4,000lbs brakes would be a good idea. I pull the boat with a 3/4 done pickup with 4 wheel disc brakes.
From my boat purchase experience I would look at the transmon very good, poke around with a needle to look for soft spots. Look it over real well, make sure you have him start the engine let it warm up to full temp, look for manifold leaks, fuel leaks, listen to the outdrive, make sure it shifts good, if you have a good water flow on the hose you can probably rev it up to about 2,000 rpms without colapsing the hose keep an eye on the water flow doing this. Rev. it slowly and make sure some water is still coming out around the ears on the motor flush tool. When was the last time fuel lines where replaced, all of them, vent, fill, and engine lines, does it have a steel or alum tank, has the water ever been cleaned out of the tank. My tanks had about 1 inch of water in the bottom of them after I purchased the boat. I got lucky they where alum and not rotted out. What condition are the bellows in, last time water pump was replaced, I would even pull the plug on the bottom of the outdrive and let just alittle oil come out to see if there is water in it. New sei outdrive will run you $1300, I just put one in last year. Look for trim cylinder leaks and anything else that looks odd. My cabin front window leaked in the front and rotted the wood cross member out that spans the boat under the windsheild. The bottom corners of my cabin wall where rotted but where covered with formica so I did not realize this until I was working on the boat at a later date.
Happy boat hunting. I love the cheiftain for an all around boat for my use. Strickly ocean fishing, little lake fishing. Wish I had the 25 foot model with the extra 4 foot for fishing room, but those 25 foots are rare.
I have no seats in the back corners by the engine so this helps for fishing room, I have fold down seats behind the driver and passenger seats.

 

[mccurtis]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

Bob,
These starcraft boats are not very heavy. A 3500 lb. trailer would probably be fine for the boat you are looking at. Check out the specs for starcraft boats on this webb site, its good imfo.

The 1973, Chieftain 21 is a 21.58 foot outboard boat. The weight of the boat is 1698 lbs. which does not include passengers, aftermarket boating accessories, or fuel. The max rated horsepower of this boat, as listed by the manufacturer, (according to records we have) is 170 hp .

1973 Chieftain Mark IV 21 is an inboard/outboard cruiser has a aluminum hull, is 21.58 feet long and 92 inches wide at the widest point. The boat weighs approximately 2528 pounds with an empty fuel tank and without any gear or passengers.

Here is the link to checkout the chieftain specs:

http://www.iboats.com/Starcraft_Marine__Chieftain__1973/bp/34br1466s4909y

The 1973, Islander 21 is a 21.58 foot inboard/outboard boat. The weight of the boat is 2157 lbs. which does not include passengers, aftermarket boating accessories, or fuel.

 

[elkhunter338]

Re: 1973 Starcraft. Is it a keeper?

So I assume dry weight 2500lbs, add all the fishing gear, kicker motor, gas, twin batteries and you are up to about 3250lbs for the boat and add the trailer and you come in at 4,000lbs +. Which is right about the weight of my 21 chieftain, 4,000lbs plus tonge weight for the boat and trailer I have. Mine weights alittle more because I put 3/4 plywood on the floor, and built 1/2 plywood seat pedastals with mahogany corner supports. And I have probably 200 lbs of lead weights in the boat (halibut, downrigger) gallon of engine antifreeze, spare prop, tools, and such.