1976 25 hp Points question

[AlTn]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I'd suggest that while waiting on the parts you need , perform a decarb on the engine especially the wot while on the boat. After installing the new parts and getting the motor up to operating temps while on the water and pushing the boat, then set the idle/low speed mixture. I've been working on a 71 Sportster and it really doesn't respond well to setting the idle/mixture in the barrel as it inhales a "lot" of exhaust. The decarb should result in a more "tuneable" engine.Also, at idle, do you observe any armature plate play?..Seems to be common on these and mine moves back and forth about 4 degs. at idle. Not a lot, but doesn't help any in setting the idle.

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Running better w/ new coil but still not right. Seems to have a lean sneeze and does not want to settle down and idle low. It will idle down and then seem like it wants to die and if I give it a little throttle it jumps way up. I have been messing with low speed nozzle setting and carb linkage, it smokes like a sob as well. Next step it to get out on the river and see how she does underway. Could be inhaling its own exhaust and burning off all the junk from running on one cylinder, and yes there is some play in the armature.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Here's a handy link that can help you get the carb dialed in.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167352

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

All new ignition system, points, coils, condensers, now lost spark!? I readjusted points, everything appears to be clean. Has to be incorrect wires or grease on points? Help!

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

sudden loss of spark on both cylinders suggest a grounding problem....did you try disconnecting the shorting switch wires where they plug into the ground wires coming from the points < 2 black wires that exit the armature plate under the flywheel >?..I'd try that and if the spark returns you may have a bare wire going to the grounding switch, or the grounding switch itself, that is causing the problem

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

By " grounding switch" do you mean the kill switch?

 

[ultra353]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

yes

 

[oldman570]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Kill switch is probley the problem. Disconect it and check for spark. Also test the points and wires to the coils again, as they might be pinched where the go thru the arm. plate. Make sure the flywheel is still magnatized, and that the air gap between the flywheel and pickup coil is not more than a few thousands. The losse arm. plate might also have moved enought to cause the loss of spark.With the motor having run already, I would bet on the kill switch first tho. When you finely get it running, I'll also bet that you will remmber all the things you have learned and will be able to help others with thier problems with electrical troubles on this type of system. HE HE!

Been tHERE, Done THAT

oldman570

 

[oldman570]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Kill switch is probley the problem. Disconect it and check for spark. Also test the points and wires to the coils again, as they might be pinched where the go thru the arm. plate. Make sure the flywheel is still magnatized, and that the air gap between the flywheel and pickup coil is not more than a few thousands. The losse arm. plate might also have moved enought to cause the loss of spark.With the motor having run already, I would bet on the kill switch first tho. When you finely get it running, I'll also bet that you will remmber all the things you have learned and will be able to help others with thier problems with electrical troubles on this type of system. HE HE!

Been tHERE, Done THAT

oldman570

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Losing my mind. Tried disconnecting kill switch, still no spark. Popped off flywheel and discovered the tip of one of the brand new breaker points broken off (the part that rests on the drive shaft). So replaced it with another brand new point,checked gap on both 0.020, removed wire and reconnected, got both cylinders to spark! Torqued down flywheel and tested again and bottom is dead, no spark. My thought is oiler wick is not doing its job? Why would the new point break? HELP!

 

[scanman]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Just my humble opinions. 1.) Depending on how much "play" is in the armature plate, the point armature could've been broken by being too close to the cam, but I've NEVER EVEN HEARD of that occuring. Also IF it was that loose, your upper oil seal is probably bad too, which can wear the crank & main bearings. 2.) I had similar firing issues on my '74 9.9hp. An Iboats friend recommended that I remove the points & clean the mounting surfaces very well. I used a Dremel with a wire brush attachment. I also used a .22 caliber bore brush to clean out the screw holes. I also cleaned the contacts of the points with lacquer thinner to remove the protective coating that is applied at the factory, to keep them from corroding on the shelf, & my firing issue went away. I'm honestly not sure which of these fixed it, 'cause I did 'em both at once, but it worked for me. I'll keep watchin your post. Hope this helps.

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

you seem to be at a point that removing the armature plate from the motor is going to be necessary..no biggie..but I'd offer you this from my own experiences...before removing anything, mark the No.1 coil < closest to carb > use something that is oil and gas resistant < I used a dot of liquid electrical tape >. Mark the armature plate with a scratch or slight notch and carry this on down to the brass support plate underneath just to have realigment marks when you put it back on. The 4 screws closest to the driveshaft hold the armatrure plate. As you remove each one put something in its place to help realign it when you replace it. I've used 2 1/2" pieces of coat hanger rods. You'll have to unplug the shorting switch wires as well as detaching the sparkplug leads. Use your fingers to hold the points arms away from the cam and the plate should lift right off. BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER....take a pic of the underside of the armature plate, or make a drawing..at least I have to, because if it can be put on upside down, in the wrong place, above or below something it shouldn't be, I've done it often enough to take precautions now.

Back in Post #8.. F_R asked if the ground wire was in place?..that's part #25 in the diagrams

Replace the plugwires now as well..solid core 7mm..seems like they're about $1.10/ ft. at the dealer ..they screw/twist into the coils..replace the boots and terminal ends as well.. a little WD or silicone electrical grease helps in shoving the terminal ends back into the boots..try not to get too much plugwire involved whehn replacing it as every latch seems to want to grab it when you put the cowl

As Scan suggests...clean to metal every connection point on the plate and clean the points with some solvent < acetone works well..avoid getting it on the wick >

Put the plate back on, align it, and screw those 4 screws back in.... < I spent upward of 2 hours once just getting those 4 screws in before I started aligning them each on removal >

Long post I know, but I've been where you are and know the aggrevation < character building>..you'll get it sorted out

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question



This is what arm plate looks like, only one driver coil, which I replaced

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I apologize for thinking you had the universal magneto, as obviously you don't..that said, I think it'd still be a good idea to remove the plate and , as Scan suggested, clean all the mounting holes and insure that the ground wire on the underside is intact and in place...doing this will help take a variable or two out of the problem..it's aggrevating. but you're getting closer to a solution

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Discovered that the ring that the armature plate mounts to is all over the place, super loose. Is this normal? It almost seems as though a part is missing. Still battling, took off the problem point condenser and cleaned out the mounting hole with carb cleaner and q-tips and put back together. I figured out how the point broke, I was putting the arm plate back on fully assembled and I must have broken the tip of the point that rests on the drive shaft while doing so!? Going to put back together and try again.

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

marineengine.com has a diagram of that section under "Crankshaft and Piston" ..1976..25 hp. Johnson outboard parts

 

[scanman]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Are you talkin about a plastic ring under the armature plate, or a metal piece that the plate mounts to? I'm not seeing it on the diagram for your motor at shop.evinrude.com. Can ya post the model number off the freeze plug?Does it show in either of these diagrams?

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Not on that diagram, I opened up my 1969 25 sportster and it is the same, I think I resolved my problem, doing a river test today thanks, will give update

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

been waiting and watching this thread - didn't want to muddy the diagnostic waters, but this thread is saved in my "weird and cool" folder -interesting read and might be relevant here:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=279981

I love these motors... I have 6 now!

 

[oldman570]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

If your looking for the nylon bearing ring try this part # on Marine engines.com, BEARING SUPPORT 0322435, it is listed for a 35 HP 1976 Johnson motor. I belive that the 25 an 35 are the same powerheads, as I have switched a 1976 35 HP over to cdi ingnition from the old point setup. To the best of my memory there is a little clip that holds the ends of the ring together and keeps it tighter on the mounting plate. To switch to CDI setup isn't that hard, but involves several more parts other than just the plate. Newer motors (1978-early 1984) CDI systems will fit some of older motors. Johnson parts for those motors are alot easier to get than some for the older points motors.

Best of Boating an BE SAFE,

Oldman 570