1976 25 hp Points question

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I am sure to be back, this forum is the best. I have a19-6 aquasport w a 2002 115 rude that I love but the old 25s are super powerful and versatile and easier to work on. The next one I buy will be pre 76 with the simple driver coils and no external coils. i will update when I get a chance to sea trial the 25.

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I'm Baaack. So took her on the river and running like cr@p. It seems to have a lean sneeze that will not go away no matter how I adjust the low speed needle. I am getting it to rev up high in nuetral when starting (I know this is bad it is not by choice, it does not like to start unless the choke is out and the throttle is high) but it definetly sounds like both cyliders are firing (sounds like a dirt bike revving up).When I tried to open it up in gear it dies. So I am getting spark, my fuel pump is new. This must be a carb issue right? I'll bet the last guy who rebuilt the carb did not replace the little low speed plastic piece that the needle sits in. Any thoughts appreciated. Merry Christmas by the way.

 

[OptsyEagle]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I am curious as to the bad cylinder's point that was "opened up too far". I have to assume that it was set correctly in the first place. Was it? If so, any idea why it changed?

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Checked spark and sure enough bottom is gone again and top is good, so I pulled of the flywheel and used my multimeter. Pulled all the wires off the bad side point and attached one of the tester wires to the point and the other to ground, turned the drive shaft and found where the meter went to nothing (just as the points open) and used the flywheel to see if the marks lined up and put every thing back together. Now I have no spark at all on either!? To answer your question Opsty, in the beginning I set both sets so that .020 feeler gauge would barely pass through. The armature plate has some play but nothing unusual.

 

[OptsyEagle]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Hmmm. So you set the points to 0.020". Then put the flywheel back on. It ran poorly. You checked the spark and the bottom cylinder was either weak or non-existant. You removed the flywheel and the point gap on the bad cylinder was now too wide. You re-adjusted it again, now with a multimeter and checked timing marks, etc. All good. Checked spark and both were good. But now motor runs poorly and when you check the spark, it is now weak or non-existant. Is that what has been happening?

When you last pulled the flywheel was the point gap OK or had it changed again or did you check?

Now for a really dumb question. When you set the gap, with either the feeler guage or multimeter, are you tightening down the set screw afterwards? Sorry about that one, but I just had to ask.

What I do after I tighten down the screw, is manually by turning the propeller, I try to turn the cam as fast as I can for about 9 or 10 revolutions, and then check my gaps again. This is really to ensure they are not going to change during operation and that I can visually see the points opening and closing. Have you been doing anything like that?

Lastly, before I put the flywheel back on I always clean the points by pulling a business card dipped in laquer thinner, through them, blow with compressed air, and then I do not touch them again with feeler guage or anything. Are you doing this or something like this?

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Don't know if this will make one hill of beans difference, but looking at a photo of the magneto plate setup for a 9.9 at LeeRoy Wisner's site..both condensors are next to the exciter coil heels whereas only one of yours is and it appears that the spring arm for one set of points is touching the heel of the exciter coil ..is it possible that set of points is grounding to that coil heel?..photo is at Leeroy's Ramblings..outboard related articles..1974-1976 magneto ignition..<21OB in the left hand column>

 

[OptsyEagle]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I assume this is what AITn is talking about. This is the armature plate of my 1976 15Hp motor. It is a little different in design then your 25Hp model. Not sure why OMC would do that or is it possible someone else did it?

 

[oldman570]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Back again; Is there a chance that you were working on the wrong set of points? Check the wh/blu wire on the coils as what is on the lower coil will be the same at the points. Very easy mistake to do as i have several times. As OptsyEagle states clean the points just brfore putting the flywheel on. Also use a fine wire feeler gauge, if you have one, as a regluar gage is to easy to not line up strieght and can throw the setting off a couple thousands. I also write down what I set each point at, then after getting it right write on top the flywheel with magic marker what works best, and can be cleanned off with brake clean if it changes. You'll have to go thru it again as before and get the points right. Get the bright blue white 1/4" spark on both plugs.
Being it runs at a idle an dies when rev up eather the timming is to fast or the high speed jet is pluged up. Look at the timming plate and see if it has screws that are in slots that will let you move the timming. The plate is the one that the carb roller rides on and should have a mark it. Do you have a manual for the motor?

Still Here, Oldman570

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I cleaned everything with laquer thinner including my feeler guage, I spun the driver shaft and rechecked points, they seemed to have moved a little so I torqued down the flathead screw that holds down the non-moveable side of the points. I must have switched the points when I cleaned them because when I retested the bottom sparked and the top was dead/ weak. So I pulled "bad" point off replaced w/ another lightly used set I had and tested again now bottom is intermitant and top is still dead? I still am not sure I know where the timing mark is on the flywheel. Does anyone know where to find the timing marks on a 1976 25 hp flywheel?

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

#1 cylinder at tdc...f/w vertical line should be almost between the 2 marks on the armature plate, OR, another 180 degs. cw will align it...on a 1971 25 hp. this vertical line is pretty faint, but there when you look for it

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

So it appears I was using a faulty spark tester of all things. I was a cheap oem one and the aligator clip came off the tester so I crimped a wire to attach both sides and it just wasn't making good contact. I got a new, better one and I am getting spark on both. Motor starts right up in a barrel but still does not want to idle low. It will idle slow enough to shift but I would not call it smooth. Yes, I have adjusted the slow idle needle without much improvement. I have also adjusted the linkage so that the carb just starts to open when the roller hits the double marks on the armature plate without any real imrovement. I assume this is a carb issue, probably lowspeed bushing that sits where the needle seats itself. Next step is the river, maybe tomorrow. Any comments or thoughts welcomed.

 

[OptsyEagle]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

When you run it in a barrel, have you tried taking some insulated plyers and removing one spark plug boot at a time to see if it still runs. The objective being, if it dies then you can assume that the other cylinder was either not firing or very weak.

 

[AlTn]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

are you adjusting the idle speed with the adjustment screw on the side of the motor , or just trying to adjust the idle mixture needle?

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I have done that in the past just not this time, it sounds better and runs smoother than it did before, that is a good test I can also inspect the plugs and figure out if both are firing.

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

I am using the idle mixture needle, you may be on to something, I get what you mean but I am pretty sure I can hear a correct low idle as I have a 69 25 hp that runs like a top and my neighbor has a 72 25 hp Johnny that idles down nice too. I guess what I am saying is I know what a correct idle sounds like for these motors and this one is a little off.

 

[oldman570]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Running in a barrel is not like having the motor in the water. It is OK for setting it up for the water, but it will need to be put under a load as some of the settings will need to be tweeked alittle. The motor will sometimes have a little trouble shifting into gear in a barrel because of the water flow, and the carb also sucks in some of the exhust fumes. Take it to the water, with a few tools, and try it out. Also take a buddy along just incase things don't work as planned, comes in handy will rowing back to the ramp. TEE HEE.

Go for it, Oldman570

 

[69 Alumacraft]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Brought her out on the river and she ran great for about 20 minutes, got right up and went like the wind and then... Back to running on the top cylinder only, luckily got me back to the dock, there I pulled the bottom plug off and it kept running. Brought it home and was getting weak spark on both, it appears my point settings are moving around a few thousands on me,not sure why. Still can't find any kind of timing mark on my flywheel, I did clean up points with sand paper and then gave them a bath in laquer thinner after, maybe I ruined them? Just seems odd that the motor will run so strong and then back to one cylinder. I also used regular marine 16 gauge wire to replace leads b/c that was all I had . It appeared to match the gauge of the blue wire that was originally there. I have tried setting the points to 020, 022 and the 018 and still only get weak or intermittent spark. Kill switch is disconnected all together, every time I mess with the points I run paper soaked in laquer thinner through. So close but yet so far, I guess I need to bite the bullet and buy the correct wires and order another set of points. I thin F_R said the regular marine wire should work but it is less supple and therefore will break sooner from bending w/ the movement of the armature Does anyone know where I can get it by the foot? Marine engine, crowley marine, boat.net ,
iboats. Also I cannot find any distinguishing timing marks on my flywheel?

 

[ultra353]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Here are the timing marks from my `75 evinrude 25 hp. The flywheel will have these marks 180 degrees apart ( each cyl). On the stator plate are the 2 marks where the flywheel timing mark will be inbetween these two when its timed correctly. The mark on the right side of the stator plate the timming is" advanced", in between " on time" the mark on the left is " retarded". Find the marks on your and get a timming light, highlight each mark on the flywheel with diff color to keep track of each cyl and see where your timming falls. Use the marks as a reference to do a static( not running) test to adjust your point opening.

 

[scanman]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

It really sounds, to me, like that bottom cylinder is shorting to ground somewhere. A small pinhole in a wire, especially a coil wire, can cause big probs. Have ya tried runnin' it at night to watch for an errant spark?

 

[oldman570]

Re: 1976 25 hp Points question

Don't change the points yet, as it ran for 20 min, before acting up again. Sounds like coil is breaking down after getting warmed up. Switch coils around and try it again. Just back boat in the river and leave on trailor if possible, to run. "Private Massage " me here as I have several contacts for parts for your motor, and a Ph# where I can reach you would help. Do Not put Ph# nor E mail on here.

Don't give up cause it can be fixed.
Oldman570