1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

My experience 1/2 Baltic Birch is WAY expensive. It typically is sold in 4x6 ft sheets and cost the same or more than a 4x8' sheet of ACX plywood. It is only waterproof if it's rated WBP (exterior). It is EXTREMLY important that the salesman shows you this rating clearly stamped on the sheets. If you want to make "I-Beam" style stringers you could do it for the tops but it would be difficult for the bottoms and get them to conform to the curvature of the hull. The caps would need to be dado'ed and epoxied securely in order for the I-Beam effect to truly be effective. It would also be very difficult to encapsulate them in glass and resin. The CSM and 1708 does not like to conform to small tight corners such as the I-Beam would create. The difference in weight would be very minimal. Possibly 50lbs at the most. Making "Port Holes" in the stringers is also not a good Idea in that boats are NOT houses or buildings and there are a lot of flexing and other type forces being applied to the hull that a house or building never encounter. You should stick with the standard techniques that have been used in the Boat industries for decades and have stood the tests of time. 3/4" stringers encapsulated in multiple layers of CSM and cloth is the way to go. Experience IS the best teacher in this case. Having said ALL of this, Bottom line, It IS your boat and you are free to do with it as you see fit. We're just here to help guide you using what little bit of knowledge we've gained along the way.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Reduction of weight is of no concern, I suggest putting your boat back together like it was built from the factory.

You could build your boat back with 1" thick plywood and it'll still be lighter than the rotted and waterlogged boat you just gutted. Put your boat back together like it was with new and dry material and you'll be amazed at how much lighter and more nimble it'll be when you get it back out on the water.

All the weight problems you may have encountered before the resto were due to water intrusion and saturation.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

The Baltic birch was actually $58 for a 4x8 sheet of 3/8 if I remember correctly. I could have misunderstood. As for the rest of the info on the redesign of the stringers, after hearing your arguments, I'll stick with the traditional method. Thanks you guys!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

$58 for a 3/8" 4x8 sheet is the equivalent of $116 for a 3/4" 4x8 sheet. That's more expensive than Marine Grade. I really think you're WAY overthinking this thing. Just stick with a Good grade of ACX. It's all about encapsulation with the glass. If you do a good job of that, just about any wood you use will stand the test of time. If it's encapsulated properly and water can't get to it, it will never rot.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Oh yeah. They also had a few other water resistant plywoods that I don't remember the names of, one started with an A I think.:laugh: but it was $130 a sheet. The other one was $180 a sheet. He said the only difference in the two being one has a much prettier finish. But that doesn't seem realistic to put that kind of wood in when it wont even show. I don't think it's realistic even if I could justify dumping that much bread on it.
I know my description was extremely limited if even considered a description, but do you guys know what type of plywood this is and which magical properties it possesses in order to be rated at a cost like that? I'd sure like to know just from the educational stand point. And who knows, maybe knowing would make it a bit more worth saving for.

And this is for jbcurt00. As I was looking back through the thread, I was reminded of a question I was going to ask you and forgot.
When you posted the pic of your heat box with your transom that you were putting together, I noticed what seemed to be several larger hole saw diameter filled in holes in your transom. What is the purpose of the holes if in fact that's what they are?
It makes me think that I read someones thread at some point saying that they did something like that to create a stronger more mechanical bond between laminated layers. Possibly to prevent shift or shear stress? I'm not trying to answer the question for you, I'm only curious if what I read was correct.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Okume, Hydrotek, Aquatek, are some brand names I'm familiar with. What you need to understand is Marine grade plywood is constructed the same as other plywood. the difference is, the plys are maybe a bitter better grade, there are almost no voids in the veneers and there are usually more layers of veneers. The aruaco brand of regular plywood uses 7 plys as does most Marine grades, it is almost void free in the plys and the veneers are of very good quality. Usually priced around $45 for a 4x8 sheet. It uses the same glue in it's construction as the Marine Grade plywood. You do not have to pay the Big Bucks to get a good quality build. MDO plywood is use in boat building all the time and you can get a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" for usually around $60 bucks.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

I got ya on the overthinking thing woodonglass, but I'm personally a bit more comfortable with the term "prudent planning", if that's really even a term. anyway, I have to use a few different thicknesses and the 3/8 is the most sensible way to go for building the 14 foot stringers according to the way you guys showed me how to laminate the lengths of plywood in sections to acheive the proper length.
I also have to plan on how many lengths and cuts I can manage out of a single peice of plywood. I have to consider the different thicknesses I have to purchase in order to put the right peices back in. The problem with this is that the transom was 2 peices of laminated 3/4, the flotation pods were rebuilt with 3/4 the floor was 3/4, the sides of the keel compartment and the fuel tank platform were 1/2 inch, the gunwales and the keel runner and cross members were 3/8, and the rebuilt stringers were of some cheap solid peice lengths of 3/4 board.
What I'm getting at is that I guess I just don't want to go buy all of these different cuts and end up with a bunch of unused high cost peices of wood that I don't have any use for. So my goal in my planning is to get the best efficiency out of my purchase and still acheive a good safe end result. Plus, I really like posting these thoughts and ideas so I can learn from the guys with the actual hands on experiece of what will or won't work.
Oh yeah, and I suck at math so picking your guys brains with all of this really helps too.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

We keep crossing posts. What do you think about HDO? I managed to locate some of that localy as well. But knowbody I have talked to has been familiar with the Arouco plywood. I wonder why?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

It was going strong for a while but then their factory burned down. Distribution is not as good as it used to be. Still pretty good on East coast and here in the mid West. HDO is Fantastic but a bit more pricey. Read This...
http://www.pacificwoodlaminates.com/img/PDFs/PlywoodGuide.pdf

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

I have seen that one. Good info but I don't know what ACX is. I also just spent some time going through a local classifieds building materials. Here's a couple I found, some 3/4 inch peices of MDF, and 10 sheets of sanded plywood. I think you guys said to stay away from MDF though didn't you. And I have noticed sanded plywood in some of the local stores. It seems to have the 7 ply and very few blemishes on the outside anyway. It's fairly expensive in the stores too so they seem to think it's worth something special.
Another type I have seen with the multiple smoothed plys were mahogany and maple too I think.
What's your opinion on these types of plywood for boat materials? I ask because they are very available and about 10 minutes from the house. They were still about $50 a sheet though which seems to be somewhat the norm.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

I have seen that one. Good info but I don't know what ACX is. I also just spent some time going through a local classifieds building materials. Here's a couple I found, some 3/4 inch peices of MDF, and 10 sheets of sanded plywood. I think you guys said to stay away from MDF though didn't you. And I have noticed sanded plywood in some of the local stores. It seems to have the 7 ply and very few blemishes on the outside anyway. It's fairly expensive in the stores too so they seem to think it's worth something special.
Another type I have seen with the multiple smoothed plys were mahogany and maple too I think.
What's your opinion on these types of plywood for boat materials? I ask because they are very available and about 10 minutes from the house. They were still about $50 a sheet though which seems to be somewhat the norm.

ACX= One side has an "A" face {nice, smooth, defect-free}, other side has a "C" face {not the nicest looking, but serviceable}, "X" is Exterior Grade
ABX is the same as above except the other face is of "B" quality {somewhere between "A" & "C"}
If available, Fir would be a better choice in any of the above.
MDF is not good, UNLESS it is the of the Green variety which is moisture resistant. Sometimes also referred to as chip board or OSB...some folks have used it in their boats and if carefully sealed from any water intrusion, has been used successfully...this is the stuff that swells when it gets wet and turns to mush.Check out this link for more info...Medium-density fibreboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MDO IS. Check this link...http://www.pacificwoodlaminates.com/img/PDFs/PlywoodGuide.pdf
7 Ply is usually the Arauco type, just make sure it is rated exterior grade.
Mahogany is great, but unless it is through all the plies, it is probably just a veneer and not really a necessary expense.
50 bucks a sheet for good quality exterior grade ply is about the norm, give or take 10-20 bucks, either direction, depending on locations, market, etc.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

The pretty and expensive plywoods you've described are fine cabinet grade veneers and plywoods, they're not made for exterior use and they use a soy bean glue to hold the plies together. Stay away from the pretty birch, walnut, cherry, mahogany, etc...

The WBP glue for the exterior grade plywood means Water and Boil Proof, this glue is used in exterior and marine grade plywood.

Exterior grade fir (best) or pine (good) plywood is all you need in ABX, ACX, or BCX grade.

Buy 3/8" thickness for laminating stringers and to replace any other 3/8" that was on your boat, buy 3/4" thickness for your transom and any other 3/4" that was on your boat.

HDO and MDO plywoods are great boat building materials, BUT they have a waterproof epoxy coating on them and won't work well with polyester resin... you'll have to switch to epoxy resin to use those materials.

Don't listen to lumber yard salesmen, tell them what you want and if they don't have it ask them when they can get it or go somewhere else. If they ask you what you're going to use the wood you want for, tell them it doesn't matter what you're going to use it for... this is the wood you want.

Edited:
Here's 3/4" Aruco plywood at a Home Depot near you for $40 a sheet:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-Arauco-32-sq-ft-Pine-Cabinet-Panel-781850/202519005#

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Thanks JNG and GT1M. I'm going over there after work today with those numbers and finding that aruco. It doesn't show that they have any 3/8 available though. I'll have to check and see about something else or I'll have to improvise the stringers to get the length I need. It does show that they have the 3/4 in stock on their site.
I got in touch with the individuals that you messaged me about, I'm just waiting for them to get back. I did a little more research on my own too. Not sure which route to go.
What type of glass do I use for which application? So far I know that I need some 1708 biaxial and 1.5 oz. Chopped strand mat, but don't I need some type of cloth to cover the entire hull and glass over the stringers and underside of the floor and stuff? Or is that what the 1708 is for?
I also read that cabosil can't be used with polyester resin. Can the milled 1/4 inch fibers mixed in with the poly be used for the same purpose? That is, I'm assuming that it is to be used as a bonding filler.

I called a shop in the local area to try and find some supplies too. The guy said he would let me take the poly at $40 a gallon. I just have to bring down a 5 gallon sealed bucket. I'm tempted. On the other hand he said the glass would be at about $20 a yard. Way more than on one of the sites I've researched.
He also tempted me with laying up the hull, transom, stringers and everything (but the floor) materials included at his business for about $1700. I would just have to cut out the peices. Kind of tempting because it eliminates a lot of the lay up and fumes in the garage. I just don't know if I want to go that route. It's just a bit hard to resist because the materials will cost that much alone I think.
Is that a fair price?

That would still leave me with a crap ton of work to do with foaming, flooring, finishing etc.. I guess I'm jut a bit tempted. Any input on that one too?

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

As far as paying someone else to do the work, I have to throw out there an old adage..." no one is going to do it as well as doing it yourself."
The learning curve is not too steep and the experience, knowledge and satisfaction you will get out of doing it yourself, I believe far out weighs the labor saving aspect of it...
I find that 40 bucks a gallon for resin is quite high, but I am extremely biased and spoiled since I get mine locally for about 15 per gallon...
The cloth, too sounds a bit pricey...
Make up a list of everything you think you'll need and contact US Composites for a quote which will include any Haz Mat and shipping...
Do the same with several other sites...
Then make your determination...
You may find that ordering most of your stuff could be a bit of savings, and if you find that you need a little more later on, you can use your local guy.
And yes, 1708 is the cloth you are looking for, along with 1.5 oz. CSM...
It takes a bit of reading, but here is a great source to get a ton of info on almost everything related with fiberglass...
http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...ake-fiberglass-information-thread-286013.html

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

I know what you mean GT1M about doing it myself just for the learning experience. And thanks for the link. Do you by chance know another one that will show me the correct methods to use though? Such as how to lay the stringers in solid and wrap them. Which layers of what need to be where, how many layers and that kind of thing?
I had a few marked before, and I swear that you guys have even posted them here for me before but I am unable to locate them. And like I said before, I suck at math so I am having a bit of a time here trying to figure out how many lengths I need to order and of what type.
The stringers I pulled from the hull had what seemed to be only one layer of cloth layed over them tabbing them into the hull. So I can't really even use them as a starting point, nor would I want to.

Let me say what I think I need to do. Please correct me where I am wrong.
I glue the stringers down to the hull with some kind of adhesive(not sure what)while in a jig. Smooth out the adhesive with a spoon or something to give it a concaved type fitment. Extend a small layer of csm just a bit beyond both sides of the joint. Again another layer of csm from the top sides of the stringers down and beyond the first layer of csm(how far, I don't know). Then with the 1708, all of the way over the top but extending from even further beyond the first two layers of csm(how far beyond them I also don't know).

By knowing if this is correct and how far the layers should overlap will drastically help my chances of somewhat accuratly figuring out the amounts of each type of materials I need to order. And from a prior attachment that was provided, I'm assuming I will need at least 15 gallons of resin. Although, I don't know if the amount of glass that the same attachment suggested will cover it as it was probably just refering to the replacement of the stringers themselves.

Again, the help is appreciated!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

This should be of some help..."Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Oh hey JNG. So sorry I forgot to mention it man. Thanks for the info on the plywood. I went there today and found that wood man. They had a couple stacks of it. $39 a sheet for the 3/4. I'm set for that now man. Thanks a bunch. They wouldn't have ever identified it without the sku from the link you provided. Major hurdle overcome!
Next I just need to figure out about 1 or 2 sheets of something in 3/8 inch and I'm just about covered on the structure. I may need just one sheet of 1/2 and 1/4. But I may also be able to improvise my way past them if I can get the 3/8.

Thanks man!

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Woodonglass. That's the exact thread I was thinking of man. Thank you very much! Another major hurdle overcome.

And now, if I'm understanding it correctly, it's actually the csm that I need more of. Not the 1708. Other then the hull layer and tabbing areas, the csm should be the bulk of the glassing to cover the deck and the transom. The 1708 will also be needed to rebuild the portion of transom area that fell off.
Thanks again!

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

I watched some of Frisco boaters Glastron transom and stringer replacement last night. Good info for me. Although, once again I got myself wound backwards on the materials.:facepalm: This is going be interesting. I guess I'll just have to order a bunch of all of it and just take it from there. Maybe watch a few more vids or something. Catch ya later.

 

[banshee owner]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

mhj i used this site to figure out most of my supply list.

Its kinda tedious but on those days you dont have much to do ya sketch er up figure out the area.

Area Calculator - SketchAndCalc™ the Area of Shapes you Draw

i was even able to figure how much tabbing i would need for the deck.

it will give you a good idea of amount of supplies and then just allow extra for goofs and such.

just remember to change the scale if you use it lol