1983 Force 85 HP ignition switch trouble/question

[Plainoldguy]

I'm stumped now that I've switched out the ignition switch, controls and motor. Before disconnecting the ignition switch I labelled each switch contact to the respective wire colors beforehand. Now that I've installed the switch/motor on another boat, the circuit breaker trips as soon as I turn the key to on position. I can crank the motor (and the choke still works) if I hot wire and bypass the ignition switch altogether. I replaced the switch and the problem remains. [NOTE: I didn't end up re-connecting the overheat buzzer (it doesn't seem to work) and the ignition harness still has a disconnected purple wire (I'm not sure what it connected to as the manual says purple is for a tachometer and the last boat didn't have one (there is no purple wire connection to the ignition switch)].

 

[jerryjerry05]

That purple wire isn't connected to the switch.
It goes to the tach.
Like I said in another post, some purple wires are HOT and need to be tested before hooking up.

If it's blowing the breaker "on a different motor" then maybe the new motor has problems?

 

[Plainoldguy]

Its the same motor and worked fine before I switched it and controls to another boat. When the key is off position and I use a voltmeter and test between the B (red) battery terminal and any of the other terminals on the ignition switch I read 12.5 volts. I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be reading anything. The other boat included a negative terminal bus and I've bypassed it and I think I may have connected a different black wire to the M terminal on the switch. Should I be measuring any current between the R (battery) terminal any of the other ignition terminals?

 

[Plainoldguy]

Here is a wiring diagram I found online for a different motor but all of the contacts/colors match up exactly as mine. in the ignition switch OFF position I measure full current between the B (battery) contact and all other contacts except white (magneto).

 

[Plainoldguy]

Here is the wiring schematic for the motor connections to my 85 HP Force motor.

 

[Plainoldguy]

On the attached pic I've highlighted my original mistake (in bright green) with my ignition wiring. I now realize I mistakenly connected the black starter relay wire (from the harness) directly to the "I" terminal on the ignition switch because it was black (the same color as the second wire from the overheat buzzer). Now I have 2 questions. #1-Is it likely I damaged anything? and #2-Is it necessary for me to add a terminal bar to connect the black wire from the starter relay since it looks like the blue wire from the switch is intended to connect with it at the terminal bar (or can they simply be connected)? Based on the diagram it seems like the blue from the switch could be directly connected to the black starter relay wire.

 

[Plainoldguy]

From the diagram it looks as if the black wire coming from the starter relay simply connects to a terminal block right before the ignition switch (it looks as if it does nothing but end there). It then looks as if each of the other colored wires could (or do) bypass this terminal block with the exception of the purple wire. Can anyone tell me if the black and violet colored wires can simply be terminated if I install a new independent terminal block or does the diagram indicate they connect in some way with other wires at the terminal block shown? From the diagram I can't see any purpose for extending the black starter relay wire beyond the second-to-last terminal block. Can anyone tell me why it extends to the terminal block immediately before the switch?

 

[Plainoldguy]

I've re-wired the ignition switch but this time I didn't make the mistake of connecting the (negative) black wire coming from harness to the switch (from the closest diagram I could find I think it connects to the starter relay???) Right now the black wire isn't connected to anything, and my voltmeter indicates its a negative). The choke now works and the starter spins but won't engage the flywheel. Can anyone confirm whether the black wire coming from the harness connects with the starter relay and can you tell me what it should be connected to near the ignition switch?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Pics always help.

The spinning and not engaging? is it hooked up backwards?(had to ask)
Is the battery fully charged? Even a battery that says it has 12v can have a bad cell.
Load tester $25 Harbor Freight.
Sometimes the worm gear gets gummed up and the Bendix won't raise.
WD and a small brush.
Too much WD and the rubber hub in the Bendix will be too saturated and slip.

 

[Plainoldguy]

Thanks again for your advice. The polarity was correct and I had checked the voltage yesterday (12.4 v) but put it on a trickle charger overnight just to be sure. This morning I tried to start it and it again just spun. I then spun the spindle in both directions by hand (it spun easily as it is a brand new starter). I then cranked it again with the ignition switch and it engaged right away. I'm happy my motor runs but still puzzled about the actual cause of the problem. Any ideas? Also- based on the diagram I attached earlier, can you tell me the purpose for the "mystery" black wire that leads from a bus bar near the ignition switch back to the starter relay? Right now I didn't attach it to anything but I know it was connected to some type of terminal attached to the dash of the old boat. Do you think its just a ground?

 

[Jiggz]

The black wire coming off the starter relay is a negative wire. There should be another wire on the same terminal that connects to ground (engine block). The other black wire provides the ground for the bus terminal under the dash. Unlike auto's which has metal bodies, on boats a separate ground wire has to be ran to a negative bus terminal. On some, a separate black wire is ran directly to the battery negative terminal.

The ignition switch has two "M" terminals. Depending on your year and model, one "M" terminal will have the white wire which are coming off the CD modules. This white wire is the shut down wire, which when the switch is turned to "Off" position, shunts the two "M" terminals together. The other "M" terminal is connected to ground.

This ground "M" terminal can either have the blue or black wire. In your case, it should be the blue wire which by the way if you look at the terminal bar, it is actually connected through a bus bar with the black wire. So if you connect either blue or black wire to only one "M" terminal and the other "M" terminal to the white wire, you should be good to go.

You can also decide not to connect the black wire but instead use it to connect to a negative bus bar or terminal for ground.

The ignition switch works as follows:
"Off" - All terminals are open except for the two "M" terminals (closed to ground to shut down the cd modules)
"On" - Both "M" terminal are open, "B" and "I" terminals are closed. The "I" terminal may sound like it stand for ignition, but the truth it is the accessory terminal. All ignition switch powered accessories, like gauges, radio, depth finders, etc should be connected to this terminal. Normally, the "I" terminal is connected to a positive bus bar to accommodate all connections.
"Choke" (pushed in the switch) - In addition to the preceding, the "C" and "B" terminals are closed activating the choke solenoid
"Start" - closes the "S" and "B" terminals energizing the starter solenoid, which in turn closes a large contact to directly connect the starter to the battery, thus energizing it.

 

[Plainoldguy]

Thanks for solving the mystery-I connected the blue to the M terminal and I'll ground the black on a separate ground terminal.