1983 Force/Chrysler running on one cylinder!

[Yukonpete]

Greetings

I have a 1983 Chrysler/force 85 HP outboard. I just picked this up from an old guy who couldn't get it running this year (It was running fine last year). He didn't bother fixing it and sold it to me as is.

The model number is a 856XC3L...three cylinder engine.

I checked the compression... 150 pounds on all 3 cylinders..

Changed the plugs, tested for spark...good spark on all three.

After cranking it a bit, It started then stalled right away, and backfired a lot. I pulled the plugs, and noticed the top two were pristine...with not a drop of fuel on them...yet the bottom one was dark a bit, which leads me to beleive it was running on the bottom cylinder only(Hence the backfiring).

Pulled the carbs off, did a complete rebuild....

Pulled the fuel pump off, cleaned+ changed the membrane and gaskets.

Started cranking again...same problem! I put my hand over the carb mouth while someone was cranking, and the carbs don't seem to be sucking much air...

No gas getting to the top two carbs... I'm now thinking it could be the reed valves. I pulled the carbs off, took the intake off and removed the reeds.... the motor comes with 10 reeds per cylinder (5 top, 5 bottom)

Here's my question...how does one know a reed valve is working properly?

When I had just the carbs off, I turned the crank and was able to see the top and bottom reeds opening and closing on the non firing cylinders...but the reeds on the bottom were not...

But I pulled the reeds off, and none are damaged, and I can open them all when I push gently on them with an eraser....so none of them are stuck.

I'm thinking this could be a bad gasket on the intake manifold, between the reeds and the carbs. When I had everything assembled and was cranking, I did see some fuel leaking out at the bottom of the manifold...and when I pulled it off , the gasket was in sad shape.
Do you think just the gasket change will do the trick? Or do you guys think I need new reed valves...if not, any ideas as to what could be causing this fuel shortage to two cylinders?

Thanks!

 

[jason32038]

Re: 1983 Force/Chrysler running on one cylinder!

If you have good compression the reed valves are good. You can take them out and check for gaps between the valve and seat in the sunlight. If you see sunlight between the reeds then they're bad.

 

[john from md]

Re: 1983 Force/Chrysler running on one cylinder!

The reeds have a tolerance that is specified in the manual. Look in your Clymer or Seloc manual and see what it is. When new, they should be sitting against their mount but a little opening is acceptable.

Backfiring is the worst thing for reeds! It will destroy them in short order. Backfiring comes from a lean mixture or timing that is too advanced.

One thing that must be replaced on older carbs is the three check valves in the fuel pump. They swell with ethynol fuel and starve your engine. They only cost $5 each and you seem to be handy enough to change them.

Additionally, when cold starting this engine, you must use the choke and fast idle start position. The choke plates do wear so it would be a good idea to do an initial set up on them as it shows in the manual.

Let us know what happens.

John

 

[Yukonpete]

Re: 1983 Force/Chrysler running on one cylinder!

Thanks guys... gonna replace those check valves....but there is gas that made it to the carbs...they have filled up since I did the overhaul so there is fuel pumping...it's just not making it past the carbs/reeds.

I had a look at the reeds in the sun... I can see light through two of them...so I'm assuming they are bad...Can anyone tell me where I can find some reeds for this engine?

It says 85158 on them.


Also, anyone know the carb settings? They are now at 1 and 1/4 turn each..

I have ordered the manual...didn't get it yet!

Thanks

 

[john from md]

Re: 1983 Force/Chrysler running on one cylinder!

Don't assume the reeds are bad just from light getting through them. They have a tolerance so wait for your manual.

You need to insure you are using the right start sequence with this engine.

Pump the ball until hard.

Pull out throttle lever and push forward for fast idle. Do this with the cowl off so you can see if the throttle linkage and timing bar move. If they don't, your carb/timing sync is off and that is your problem.

Next, push in the key to activate the choke and turn to engage starter. Keep it cranking until it kicks over. Note: This can take a minute for an engine that is not tuned correctly.

John

 

[mixman9999]

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What sprk plug do you use on a 1983 chrysler 85 horse force motor???? not sure what to get..

 

[john from md]

Re: 1983 Force/Chrysler running on one cylinder!

A Champion UL18V or NGk BUHX will work fine in that engine.

John

 

[Yukonpete]

Re: 1983 Force/Chrysler running on one cylinder!

Ok, I will re-assemble and try the start proceedure.

In the meantime, does anyone know where I can get new reeds for this outboard? I just like to put new ones in and be done with it... It might take a month before I get my book, and the summer will be over by then!

Thanks

 

[john from md]

Re: 1983 Force/Chrysler running on one cylinder!

What if you spend $70 on new reeds and it doesn't fix the problem? Throwing parts at a problem is not the way to get it fixed. However, it is your money and time.

Reeds can be found at

www.crowleymarine.com
www.mercruiserparts.com
www.boats.net
www.dougrussel.com

John

 

[Yukonpete]

Re: 1983 Force/Chrysler running on one cylinder!

Thanks John

The boat (once fixed) will be brought to a remote lake...far from any marine parts store. I want to make sure anything that can go wrong is taken care of, as it will be a major pain to bring it back.

I had noticed though, back before I disassembled everything, that the primer bulb ,,,,no matter how many times I pumped it, never got hard...any last thoughts?

 

[john from md]

Re: 1983 Force/Chrysler running on one cylinder!

If the bulb is not getting hard, either of two things is happening.

1. Your needle valves are not seating. In this case, fuel would be squirting out of the intake and float bowl vent on the carb.

2. The check valves in the fuel pump are bad. Ethanol causes these to swell and it is a common problem.

Regards,

John

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1983 Force/Chrysler running on one cylinder!

First off, REEDS are allowed to stand open at rest a maximum of .010 inch. So, yes, you may be able to see light through them and they will still be OK. As long as they sit flat, are not bent, or not broken, they will work fine. Those early reeds are almost trouble-free. In all my engines, I have only broken one reed petal on a 55 HP engine. SO: Don't waste your money unless you have an OBVIOUSLY bad reed

If you have removed the manifold and it was never removed before, it is almost a certainty that the gasket(s) have been damaged and need replacement. There are three gaskets and each gasket seals a vee block to the manifold AND the manifold to the block.

IT IS POSSIBLE for the vee block screws to become loose and let air bypass the reeds, but not probable on that engine.

Given that the primer bulb does not become hard, It sounds like it is bad and not pumping fuel--remember, fuel goes to the bottom carb first so it will get all of a limited supply.

FIRST go to Wal-Mart and buy a new fuel line and primer bulb for around 12 bucks. THEN, if that does not help, check the carbs AND the fuel lines between them.