1984 Skeeter Champ 16' Restore

[fmjnax]

Hi all,

I've been searching the forum all morning and haven't been able to find a definitive answer to my questions, so here goes my first post ever on iboats!

I've got an old 1984 Skeeter 16' in which the stringers and floors are shot, but remarkably, the transom is still dry. I bought it for $1500 last year with every intention of it being my first/starter boat AND a project boat. I figure I might be able to get up to $2500 back for it (based on comparative sales in the area) if I can spark some new life into it by the time I am done with it. With Texas being so dang hot this year and the lakes drying up, I've decided to start to restore process a little bit early.

The plan is to replace the stringers, replace the foam with closed-cell pour foam, replace the floors, repair the fiberglass dings on the hull, and re-gelcoat the entire thing. I will also be adding 3 new compartments in the front deck (it currently only has one), making a recessed foot tray up front, rewiring, and putting in all new seating.

I'm fully aware of how big the work order is. I'm doing the restore properly, but I want to keep it on the cheap side as best I can. I do not have a set budget for the restore, but I obviously want to be able to recoup as much as I can when I sell. I also don't want to end up putting in so much that I could have went and got a better boat for the same money. Realistically, I want to keep it ALL under $2k.

Anyway, I had initially planned on using epoxy resin with 1708 cloth exclusively, but after adding it all up, I would be looking at $600-800 in resin and $300 in cloth. I've already decided to go with poly resin, which will cut that bill down to $250-300. For 'glassing I had planned on 3-4 layers of 1708, but if I go with a single layer of 1708 and a single (or maybe a double?) layer of 3/4 CSM, would that be sufficient? If so, I can cut my cloth price in half as well.

Now on to the floors/deck. Again, my initial plan was to coat the plywood in epoxy resin before putting it down. Since I have decided on going with poly instead of epoxy, it does no good to just resin the wood. Would a single layer of 3/4 CSM be sufficient for water resisting (I realize it won't water proof it, but I don't need to proof it as the boat is garage-kept)?

Long story short, I suppose my questions are:
1 - What is the absolute minimum cloth/layers I could get by with for replacing the stringers?
2 - What is the absolute minimum cloth/layers I could get by with for creating water-resistant floors?

Thanks for reading all! Once I get a bit more progress done on the boat, I will start a log thread here. Right now I'm still pulling hardware and getting ready to pull the outboard and lift the top cap off.

 

[Scott Chinsota]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

i'm in the middle of the same project. i'll catch some flak for this but i decided to use 1 1/2oz csm and poly. everything is getting wrapped twice and tabbed twice. mine's a 15 footer pushed by a 50hp outboard. hope it holds. time will tell.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

These pics are how I recommend doing it. Just our of curiosity, what did you do to ensure that the transom was solid and good to go??

Click the pics to enlarge


Decks





Stringers

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Hi all,

The plan is to replace the stringers, replace the foam with closed-cell pour foam, replace the floors, repair the fiberglass dings on the hull, and re-gelcoat the entire thing. I will also be adding 3 new compartments in the front deck (it currently only has one), making a recessed foot tray up front, rewiring, and putting in all new seating.

I'm fully aware of how big the work order is. I'm doing the restore properly, but I want to keep it on the cheap side as best I can. I do not have a set budget for the restore, but I obviously want to be able to recoup as much as I can when I sell. I also don't want to end up putting in so much that I could have went and got a better boat for the same money. Realistically, I want to keep it ALL under $2k.

Welcome to Iboats fmjnax .. ..

I doubt you will do a full resto With mods and keep it to your budget..

I dont even think you will keep your budget without the mods .. You might .. skimp here and there ..

Good luck and post more pics when available .

YD.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Three to four layers of 1708 would have been overkill on the stringers, one layer will probably work on a 16' boat, but extra CSM doesn't help all that much. The big question is, what glass was on the stringers to start with, you only need to replace what was there to ensure it will hold up, more doesn't do much except add to the cost.

To keep the cost down you can either sand and buff the gel coat in attempt to bring back some color and gloss, or you can paint it, paint will cost less, be easier and take less time than re-gel coating.

And make sure the transom is good before going any further, otherwise most of what do will have to be re-done when you find the transom is rotten in 6 months.

 

[fmjnax]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Thanks for the diagrams Woodonglass. To check the transom I first did the "bounce on the skeg" when I bought it. No flex at all. I also checked for cracks in the gelcoat or any other sign of damage. All holes going through the transom appears to be sealed as well (silicone looking material is squished around every items that going through the hull). Once I got home, I did the "rubber mallet" check. Hitting the mallet all over the transom provided a very dense THUD (whereas a thump on, say, the side of the hull produced a light echoing hollow sound). Finally, once I started to do the restore, I took 4 or 5 "core samples" from the inside. All samples produced clean, dry wood.

YD - I realize that $2k is a very tight budget, but if I go over it, then I go over it. I'm thinking I am still way off on my materials list because I'm only up to about $1800 on it. I'm still working on the specific list, though, so I'm sure another $200-500 will show up where I never would have expected it.

ondarvr - If I restored it the way it is now, I wouldn't be using much glass at all. I'm quite inexperienced with fiberglass so it's hard for me to judge what sort of glass they used, but I do know that it is weak enough for an ice pick to easily pop through and weak enough that I can break pieces of it off by hand. In some places it looks like it was shot by a chopper gun and given only one pass, but then in other places it appears that a mat is laid down. Either way, I guarantee that a single layer of 1708 would easily be A LOT more than what was originally used.

As for the gel coat, I'm pretty well stuck on giving it a fresh job. The current color scheme is a tan/khaki/beige and a brown flake. The old carpet was brown and the old seats were blue. UGLY is the only work to describe it! The hull has some damage closer to the bow as well as chunks of gel coat missing here and there. The top cap is quite oxidized and scratched with many years of holes drilled here and there. I'm going to fix all of the damage/holes and give it a color change to white/maroon flake with matching carpet and seats (I'm a Texas A&M Aggie, so it'll be my aggie boat. )

Just a bit more on the transom: based on the state of the stringers, I lean towards the aspect that a previous owner must have had the transom replaced in the not so recent past. On a 17 year old boat, I wouldn't have expected the core samples to come out as clean as they did. I also wouldn't have expected to see EVERY thru-transom item to be sealed in like they are. I'm still a few weeks from popping the top cap, but I really don't know what to expect to see once it is up. As of right now, I have no reason to touch the transom other than to fix my core sample holes... but that's not to say that I will need to replace it due to something I couldn't feel/see with the cap on it. I'm not against redoing the transom and if even one sign points to a problem, it will be done.

 

[fmjnax]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

To keep the cost down you can either sand and buff the gel coat in attempt to bring back some color and gloss, or you can paint it, paint will cost less, be easier and take less time than re-gel coating.

I just re-read your post and I must have missed the "paint it" part. If I was to paint it, would I have to sand off all of the gelcoat first or can paint be applied on top of a gel coat shot with a primer? I would feel more confident with paint, I'm sure! I've seen the Rustoleum posts, but I haven't searched for paint (I've only been looking at gel coat). I'll start digging in to that (it's out of the scope of this thread), but any suggestions for paint you might have, I'm all ears.

 

[oops!]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

a few of the problems we have as backyard guys is .......

1. we dont know how strong fiberglass really is.
2. we allways tend to over build.
3. when thinking of a restoration project....we assume everything has to come out.

1708 properly glassed is super strong.....it really depends on the bond to the substraight. we are talking as strong as steel here.

if you do a csm tabbing and a csm wet up the face of the stringer with another wet 1708 over that...you should be good. 3 to 4 layers will just add weight and run up your costs.
the 1708 is really thick cloth, and it drinks resin. you could have gone 5 gallons on the stringers alone....and thats huge.

as far as the transom........the leading cause for rot is improperly sealed transom holes.and you seem fine with what you have.

one thing....if the po re worked the transom.....then chances are they did more than that... you might be surprised when you get in to the deck.

lets see pics of the gellcoat.....as ondarvr mentioned.....chances are that you done neeed to re gell.......possibly just fix up some areas with repairs.....but a full re gell is a whole lot of work......at 60 a gallon....and you needing 4 it will add up fast. not to mention...proper sand paper is a buck a piece.....and you will need hundreds to do the hull.



dont want to get your hopes up......but if you are just doing the stringers and the deck.....thats only 800 bux.

oh.....btw.....minimum for a deck is 3 oz.....2 layers of csm

however the proper way does not take any more resin and only costs 10 bux more......after the two layers of csm...wet on wet.....add a final finishing layer of 6 oz cloth....a woven product. add it on top of the csm.....it will actually drink excess resin.....and the wet out of it is far easier than the csm.

then you just roll some gellcoat over that and throw your rug down

 

[fmjnax]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Thanks oops!

I'll get some pictures uploaded when I get home tonight.

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Gonna throw this in for the strength of the 1708. I installed stringers with a layer of mat followed by a layer of 1708 only. I drilled a hole for a lifting ring in the stringer and it supported the entire boat with no problem. But overkill me I added a second layer before installing the deck. Three or four layers is just a total waste.

Heed Oops advice on the resin rich areas...you only need a good wet out, extra resin doesn't help at all and just adds weight and cost. My first restore took twice the resin I use now even on larger boats. There is a learning curve and it's very tempting to think "Hmmm, more resin, more strength" and it's not true. A good wet out is all you need.

 

[fmjnax]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Thanks Cad. So do you think I would probably be much wiser to start with maybe 1/3 of the materials as I have on my list and then buy more as needed?

So far, I have the following:
15 gallons of poly resin
20 yards of 50" 1708
45 yards of 50" 3/4 CSM
1 pound of microballons (I'm not sure how much of this I will need to make PB)

If I start with a third of that, then I will probably get a pretty good feel for what I will need if/when the first batch runs out based on how well I did with it.

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Thanks Cad. So do you think I would probably be much wiser to start with maybe 1/3 of the materials as I have on my list and then buy more as needed?

So far, I have the following:
15 gallons of poly resin
20 yards of 50" 1708
45 yards of 50" 3/4 CSM
1 pound of microballons (I'm not sure how much of this I will need to make PB)

If I start with a third of that, then I will probably get a pretty good feel for what I will need if/when the first batch runs out based on how well I did with it.

Not a 1/3 but less for sure.

10 Gallon of resin.
10 Yards of 1708
15 Yards of CSM (1.5 oz)
Your filler is okay (microballons) Personally I seldom ever used thickened resin for anything.

 

[fmjnax]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Good deal Cad. I appreciate it! I think I will start with that and then order more if/when needed. I'm glad I joined iboats and got the "professional" opinion before I started. I've already knocked my original cost list down by a good $500+!

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

The plan is to replace the stringers, replace the foam with closed-cell pour foam, replace the floors, repair the fiberglass dings on the hull, and re-gelcoat the entire thing. I will also be adding 3 new compartments in the front deck (it currently only has one), making a recessed foot tray up front, rewiring, and putting in all new seating.

Realistically, I want to keep it ALL under $2k.

YD - I realize that $2k is a very tight budget, but if I go over it, then I go over it. I'm thinking I am still way off on my materials list because I'm only up to about $1800 on it. I'm still working on the specific list, though, so I'm sure another $200-500 will show up where I never would have expected it.

I'm not against redoing the transom and if even one sign points to a problem, it will be done.

Even before the newly mentioned Possible trans job adding your list ... I still dont think your estimate cost is within $2500.

For the stringers I would do 1.5 oz mat..2 lams of 1708..1.5 oz mat.
Deck should be 1 layer 1.5 oz underside .. and 1.5 oz mat and 1 lam of 1708 ( flipped over mat side up ).

Resin of choice would be Laminating resin .. not GP ( general purpose ) resin.

Please get up some pics

YD.

 

[oops!]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

the way to figgure out how much fiberglass you need is simple.......15 foot boat.....is 5 yards......2 layers...is 10 yards. the stuff comes in 60 inch wide rolls.....so there will be lots left over.

 

[fmjnax]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

YD - Are you saying I won't be over $2500 or I'm going to be over $2500? I just can't seem to picture how I would be over $2500, but I'm not saying it won't happen.

With the transom, I can say it's fine all day long, but until I get the cap pulled off, I won't know for certain. So yeah, it's a possibility that it will need it but I guess I'm just really hoping that all of my findings thus-far still hold true when I pull the cap.

Anyway, here are a bunch of pictures. I'm still in the removal stage, so excuse the mess. I'll try and explain the pictures as I go:

This is the boat from the stern before starting

This is the boat from the bow before starting

This is one of the main reason for starting the restore. The floor was not stable at all (notice it is uncoated and warped)

This is what I saw after pulling up the floor. A MESS!!

A better shot of what is left of a stringer in the center of the boat

 

[fmjnax]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Moving on to the bilge you can see the rotted wood

The foam was absolutely saturated with water/gasoline! The floor pulled up by hand in a pile of mush.

The bilge is just about cleaned out now

Another shot of the bilge

Here is the damage to the hull at the bow

And here is the boat as a whole... as it sits now

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Your way over $2500 IMO .. with All the things you are suggesting .. you are under budgeting ..

Could you please say where you will NOT do this or that ..

We can help you on the resto part of it no problems .. but if you think your going to do all of this on that budget Im really worried about that ..

Just trying to watch your back m8 ..

YD.

 

[fmjnax]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Hey, no worries YD. I appreciate the help! I'm not the expert here and I've never done this before so I'm not questioning anything. Just trying to get the best advice I can get.

I'm still very much in the planning stage. I'm getting married (officially. HA!) in October and I promised I wouldn't spend a dime on the project until then... but afterward, I have all the freedom in the world. I'm sitting on a $20,000 bank account for the wedding and whatever isn't spent from that, I get to use towards a new truck and the boat (and $20k is after the dress, decorations, venue, flowers, clothes, pictures, cakes, and reception, so I'm sitting pretty right now!!!!).

Anyway, here is the definite task list and what I am budgeting for each:
- Replace stringers: Starting out with about $400 worth (10 gal of poly resin, 10 yds of 1708, 15 yds of CSM). I am obviously still trying to figure this out, but I'm going to start with a small order and go from there. I already have 6 full sheets (8x4) of exterior plywood.

- Replace floors and deck: Price rolls in the the above.

- Add new compartments to the front deck: Price included in above. It's not that hard to cut some new holes and box in some compartments. Maybe another sheet of plywood or two, but nothing major here. I'm going to custom fab the lids myself

- New pourable foam underneath: $250 starting out. I can get 100 lbs of 2lb foam locally for this price. That's 50 cubic feet of coverage, give or take. If I need more, I will go back and get more.

- Replace carpets: $150 I've already got a place locally on-hold with an order for me for 25' of 20oz marine carpet and contact cement. It's a friend-of-a-friend hookup.

- Fresh color: This is still up in the air regarding gel coat vs Rustoleum. Gel coat is budgeted so far at $500 and Rustoleum is budgeted at $125 so far, but I need to do A LOT more research on this.

- Rewire the entire boat: I already have 25 yds of 14 ga and another 10 yds or so of 12 ga. I will need other stuff (distribution block, connectors, etc) but I have most everything else. I've done a lot of electrical in the past. Still, I'm not sure the price on this, but maybe another $100

- New boat seats: $300 - $400. I am not going fancy at all on these. A couple folding seats at the console, a butt seat up front, and a folding seat at the back. The center "seat" I will make myself with some foam that I have and some vinyl (I've also done upholstery in my time. )


So all of that added up is anywhere from $1325 to $1800, depending on what I finally decide on with some of it. Adding in a good margin of error and going with Gel Coat, I could see it being $2500. However, going with Rustoleum (which I am highly leaning towards), A good margin of error would still put me under $2000.

Again, I'm no expert here, so let me know what I might be forgetting or not factoring in. I'm kind of a jack-of-all-trades around the house. I'm a computer programmer by trade, but I have done construction, auto body, mechanics, cabinetry, and electrical work in my off-time. I have hundreds of sheets of sandpaper in all textures, plenty of automotive compounds/waxes, several spray guns, all the power tools I could need, spools of wire, boxes of screws (everything from drywall to SS), etc. I think I'm pretty close to being set on the small stuff. It's just the major purchases that are up in the air.

I appreciate all the help you guys are giving me!!!

 

[fmjnax]

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

Re: Replacing stringers and floor (what cloth do I need?)

I had started a new thread for this but was suggested to keep it all in one place, so here it is.

I'm planning on adding "ribs" at various points in the hull and filling the resulting boxes with 2-part foam, thus leaving a central channel as the unobstructed bilge and the left/right sides filled with foam. I've seen it done numerous time but I haven't seen yet where anyone has addressed drainage (maybe it is implied and not photographed?). How does one address any potential drainage in these foam-filled chambers? The 2-part foam can't possible displace the water 100% and being sealed off from the bilge, there would be nowhere for water to go. Am I thinking too much about this or is there something I need to do that I am not aware of?