1985 4 winns Horizon 195 needs to be gutted and rehulled.

[Buickgsman]

Hi all, I am new to the forum, and new to boats for that matter. I have been wanting a boat for a while but just recently thought I got a great deal on a 85 Horizon 195 from a neighbor who moved. The boat was left out for at least a few years with no cover. The floor is very solid but after opening the fuel tank hatch I found it was pretty nasty inside. But the floor is solid! Anyway, I've been contemplating ripping the floor, foam and stringers out and redoing it. I've been on YouTube and searched a few posts here. I'm getting the courage up. I paid 1200 bucks for the boat and 2 dirt bikes that I should be able to sell to make my money back for it all... so basically I'm calling the boat free. The motor is coming out tomorrow so I will see what that needs. I have questions galore about the hull restoration that I will ask after I get some pics up here in the next few days. I'm looking forward to learning from you all. -Bob

 

[Corjen1]

Welcome to dry dock!! You are in the right place!! Great bunch of folks here willing to help!! We need pix to help though and there is a rule... if there are no pix, whatever your talking about didn't really happen!

 

[jigngrub]

A 30 yr. old boat may feel solid in some places, but will usually have rot in more places than are solid. Your deck may seem solid, but is probably wet at the very least and will probably be rotten on the under side, the foam that is supporting your deck is what makes it feel solid right now.

 

[Buickgsman]

So I spent the day today pulling the engine with the help of my Uncle. It was locked up and wouldn't crank. We got it out and removed the bellhousing and I found the rear freeze plug wedged in the starter. The hole it fell out of looked fine. We checked compression and the compression was good at 150psi except for cylinder # 2 which was about 125. So I figured that was doable. I thought I was home free until I thought about the staining on the manifold side of the block. I removed the manifold and there it was. a giant crack. So much for the good day. I was hoping this would be easy. ughhhh! So I guess I am looking for a engine now

 

[jigngrub]

I hate it when that happens!:embarassed:

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Welcome to dry dock mate. This is expected; core plugs don't just pop on their own. The hole it came out of looked fine because the ice that pushed the core plug out melted long ago. How mechanically inclined r u? Is rebuilding an engine something you feel comfortable taking on? What engine you got?

This is going to be the most expensive free thing you ever got for yourself but, if you can do it, it will still be zillion times cheaper than a new boat of the same class and much stronger. Best of luck to you


BTW, make peace with the fact that every single piece of wood in this boat will go and be replaced with a nice, dry and sealed one. Nothing is solid no matter how it feels or how many times you mention it in one post. The boat was left exposed to the elements for few years man! a small rotted spot under a screw or a nail - that was never supposed to be there to begin with - will doom the whole piece of wood sooner or later. You will see what I am talking about when you start digging.

If you decide to take this project on, don't worry about help; you came to the right place.

 

[Buickgsman]

1985 4Winns Horizon 195 Rehull Job questions... What do I need? [COLOR=#6A6A6A !important] [/COLOR]



ASide from having my head examined, what material quantity will I need to replace everything under the floor. I am mechanically able to do most anything from engine rebuilds to fiberglass work. Am I exited about doing it? No... this is a first boat for me and I am exited about having a boat, but not 100% sure I will love having a boat. anyway, I'm capable. So the boat came on a EZ Loader trailer with rollers. I've read that the sides of the boat can flex when the floor is removed. Would I be able to leave it on the trailer during a rebuild or do I have to make a special jig or brace? Any pics of one if I do? Also, how much should I expect to spend on material to repair everything below the floor and also the transom? Ive been watching Friscoboaters SeaRay rebuild on Youtube. Doesnt look fun to me, but seems doable but watching isnt the same as doing on your own boat. Does anyone have pics of a 4Winns hull opened up so I can see what it will look like gutted? Thanks!
Bob

 

[jbcurt00]

I deleted your other topic.

Lets start w the basics. Because this boat has a cuddy cabin, there may be more to the rebuild then deck, stringers, motor mounts and transom. Often for an I/O boat, the cap doesnt have to come off. It'll make it easier to work on the transom if its outta the way though and if the cabin door bulkhead, cabin floor or seats are attached to or resting on the deck, taking the cap off may make it easier still.

I refer to the rear open area around the inboard motor the deck, and as it looks to be on a different level, I called it a cabin floor, for the cuddy cabin in the bow area.

As its a larger boat w a cuddy, I'm not sure of the quantity any of the needed materials you'll need. But the short list:

Several sheets of 3/4 exterior grade plywood (not pressure treated) or ACX, Auraco, Marine ply are good choices. Least to most expensive. There are other choices.

At least 1 sheet of 1/2" exterior plywood

20gal of polyester resin with MEK catalyst (minimum, maybe more)

1708 biaxial and 1.5oz CSM fiberglass

Several gallons of gelcoat or paint when you get it put back together.

Plus lots of odds and ends and safety gear.

Not including purchase of tools or a new engine, keeping the trailer as is w little spent to rehab it, reusing all of the existing seats, interior upholstery, steering setup, boat hardware, fuel system, gauges and windshield, I'd guess $3000+/- doing all the work yourself.

 

[jbcurt00]

For a boat this big, if you have the space for the boat on a cradle and to store the trailer, I'd build a cradle for the boat and work on it off the trailer.

Someone just posted an interesting cradle design in tje last couple of days. Made a template at set points along the hull and built jigs out of plywood to match his templates. Mounted to a frame w 2X4 reinforcements, looks like a fairly quick and low cost cradle that fits and supports his hull great.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

1985 4Winns Horizon 195 Rehull Job questions... What do I need? [COLOR=#6A6A6A !important] [/COLOR]



ASide from having my head examined, what material quantity will I need to replace everything under the floor. I am mechanically able to do most anything from engine rebuilds to fiberglass work. Am I exited about doing it? No... this is a first boat for me and I am exited about having a boat, but not 100% sure I will love having a boat. anyway, I'm capable. So the boat came on a EZ Loader trailer with rollers. I've read that the sides of the boat can flex when the floor is removed. Would I be able to leave it on the trailer during a rebuild or do I have to make a special jig or brace? Any pics of one if I do? Also, how much should I expect to spend on material to repair everything below the floor and also the transom? Ive been watching Friscoboaters SeaRay rebuild on Youtube. Doesnt look fun to me, but seems doable but watching isnt the same as doing on your own boat. Does anyone have pics of a 4Winns hull opened up so I can see what it will look like gutted? Thanks!
Bob

You are in a tough spot. Most of us here go through these projects because we love to do it. Call us sick but we do. We watch each others threads like movies and enjoy the pictures; some of the board members even call these pictures "Boat porn".

If you are not excited about it; not sure you will even like having a boat, this raises a red flag and you should start questioning if you really want to do this or not.

Regarding your questions, back of the napkin calculations of course, 3-5K should get you where the boat is in a very good and seaworthy status without the engine.

For the engine, you don't need a brand new one. What I would do id to find a block and machine it (about $1200). You will need to take the heads also to the machine shop to tell you what they need (maybe nothing and maybe a full head/valves job)

You need a new cam and core plugs (brass). You need new pistons if you bored the block oversize, new gaskets sets (marine).

Then rebuild this engine using all the parts from he cracked one.

I am not sure how much tools you already have but non of these rough numbers include buying any new tools.

Rollers trailer is not good to support the weight of the boat without stringers. You have I/O so you don't need to remove the cap and with that, no need to worry about the hull changes shape with removed deck; but without stringers, these rollers can really pinch the fiberglass skin. You will need to jack up the hull until it doesn't touch the rollers support it with boat jacks or similar device. We can cross this bridge when we reach it though.

 

[Buickgsman]

Thanks for the info guys. When you say that the "cap" may or may not need to come off, what does that mean exactly? Is that the inner part of the hull that you would lean against, the area covering over the transom where the rear seat hinge mounts to? What about the wall that seperates the cabin from the outside deck? That would come off too correct as I would also have to do the floor/ stringers under the cuddy??

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Mod EDIT: reposted pix removed




Your boat is built out of two main parts, the hull and the cap. Think of it exactly like a shoe box, The seam between them is hidden under the aluminum bar surrounding the hull (your rub rail) and there is a rubber insert in the rub rail. I highlighted the rub rail in the picture with red line. Every thing above this line - all around the boat - is the cap. You remove it by taking out the rubber insert, drill the rivets and remove the rail then left the cap )with the help of a winch or some strong friends. You don't need to do that for your boat though, it is I/O.

You will know if you need to gut out the bulkhead or not when you start digging but most likely you will need to.

 

[jbcurt00]

Someone just posted an interesting cradle design in the last couple of days. Made a template at set points along the hull and built jigs out of plywood to match his templates. Mounted to a frame w 2X4 reinforcements, looks like a fairly quick and low cost cradle that fits and supports his hull great.

Found it:
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...10051008-vanguard-gemini-rebuild-modification

 

[Buickgsman]

Thanks for the info everyone. When I realized the motor was toast and the potential cost to redo the hull, my first thought was to dump the boat and find something newer that has no rot. But I don't want to spend more than 5k( 3k really, but lets be real) and most likely anything I could buy at that price would probably have rot. I seem to be pretty attached to this boat and I am giving strong consideration to diving in with the circular saw and grinder! The trailer is in very nice shape, and aside from the water issues and the crack in the block it seems like it was lightly used so It would be a good rehull candidate.

 

[jbcurt00]

But I don't want to spend more than 5k( 3k really, but lets be real) and most likely anything I could buy at that price would probably have rot.

Absolutely.

Good decision to rebuild IMO.

Best of luck w/ your project

 

[Buickgsman]

No Title

Well, after checking out a few newer boats that I didn't feel comfortable in, I decided that I would stay with the Four Winns. I feel very comfortable in the boat and think it is indeed a good foundation. I went and found a replacement motor for a reasonable price, so it is officially a project!

 

[Duranma62]

Welcome to dry dock mate. This is expected; core plugs don't just pop on their own. The hole it came out of looked fine because the ice that pushed the core plug out melted long ago. How mechanically inclined r u? Is rebuilding an engine something you feel comfortable taking on? What engine you got?

This is going to be the most expensive free thing you ever got for yourself but, if you can do it, it will still be zillion times cheaper than a new boat of the same class and much stronger. Best of luck to you


BTW, make peace with the fact that every single piece of wood in this boat will go and be replaced with a nice, dry and sealed one. Nothing is solid no matter how it feels or how many times you mention it in one post. The boat was left exposed to the elements for few years man! a small rotted spot under a screw or a nail - that was never supposed to be there to begin with - will doom the whole piece of wood sooner or later. You will see what I am talking about when you start digging.

If you decide to take this project on, don't worry about help; you came to the right place.

I was reading your reply and than you for the words of encouragement. Most replies I have received from other folks is to dump my boat and be done with it. I also have a 1985 four winns 195 horizon cuddy that I bought real cheap. I understand completely. I had a 67 mustang that I restored with the help of other folks. I pu money into it but when I was done she was a beauty. Sorey back to the boat, I have not take the carpet out yet but I did notice some rot on the floor surrounding the engine. The inside of the engine compartment look ok. The cuddy looks almost new. I know this is an old thread but if you guys still around because I would like some advice and little guidance. I have a mercruiser 170HP 3.7L engine. 4 cylinder. I would like to send pics once u start removing the carpet.
Thank you

 

[Duranma62]

1985 4Winns Horizon 195 Rehull Job questions... What do I need? [COLOR=#6A6A6A !important] [/COLOR]



ASide from having my head examined, what material quantity will I need to replace everything under the floor. I am mechanically able to do most anything from engine rebuilds to fiberglass work. Am I exited about doing it? No... this is a first boat for me and I am exited about having a boat, but not 100% sure I will love having a boat. anyway, I'm capable. So the boat came on a EZ Loader trailer with rollers. I've read that the sides of the boat can flex when the floor is removed. Would I be able to leave it on the trailer during a rebuild or do I have to make a special jig or brace? Any pics of one if I do? Also, how much should I expect to spend on material to repair everything below the floor and also the transom? Ive been watching Friscoboaters SeaRay rebuild on Youtube. Doesnt look fun to me, but seems doable but watching isnt the same as doing on your own boat. Does anyone have pics of a 4Winns hull opened up so I can see what it will look like gutted? Thanks!
Bob

Hi,
Did you ever finish your project? I also have a 1985 four winns 195 horizon cuddy. Do you have pics of your journey you can share? Or advice that you give me. I am about to start down that journey.
Thank yiu