1985 85 hp ignition help

ammermanfam

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Jun 22, 2009
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finished the rebuild on motor but having trouble with timing. i have verified tdc,lines up perfect but when i hit it with the light the marks are about 150 degrees off.they light up above the terminal block.I have tried adjusting it but only get an inch or two of movement by the marks.any help here would be greatly appreciated.
 

pnwboat

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Oct 8, 2007
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4,251
Re: 1985 85 hp ignition help

Number one cylinder is the top plug wire. If that's the wire that you're using, then most likely you have the trigger wires for number one cylinder on the wrong terminals. You most likely have trigger wires for #2 cylinder going to the section of the CD Module that fires #1 cylinder. That's why the timing is so far off. That's my guess anyways....

OR....you have the wires that go from the first CD module that drive #1 and #2 coils reversed.
 
Last edited:

Jiggz

Captain
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Oct 23, 2009
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3,909
Re: 1985 85 hp ignition help

Re-verify ignition wiring starting from the trigger wires as previously mentioned and the wiring for the CDM's all the way to the coils and plugs. Being 150 degrees off, it sounds like you are one cylinder off, i.e. 150 minus the advance of about 28~30 degrees is equal to 120 which is about one cylinder off since you have 3 cylinders, 360/3 = 120.
 

ammermanfam

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Re: 1985 85 hp ignition help

got in there and straightened it up. it was crossed wires at cdi to coil. still havent got it to start as while trying ,small ground from terminal to main ground melted. not sure about this.tested starter and there is continuity between hot and ground. is this correct. the ground that melted was only one that was hot to touch. took a picture of terminal block but having trouble uploading it. thanks for your help so far.been spot on!
 

MickLovin

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Re: 1985 85 hp ignition help

You will get a low reading across positive and negative of the starter and this is normal as the starter is a motor which is just a coil of wire creating a magnetic field which in turn, spins the rotor. But if you have the starter disconnected from ground and you put a lead to the positive and one the the motor ground it should read high as when you disconnect the negative from the starter you are disconnecting the circuit of the starter armature. So if you test with the negative disconnected and you still get a low reading, it is down to earth on the armature side therefore faulty.
Are you talking about the small negative attached to the starter from the rect/regulator? Either way replace it, It may have been your crossed wiring on the High tension leads that caused this ( unsure ) or a loose ground wire. Check all your terminations and retighten them, won't hurt, just don't over-tighten and snap one.
IMG_1511.jpg
Have a look at the picture I posted and you see a black wire from the rectifier to the starter, it may have come loose causing high current draw. From what I can understand of these starters, they have a high current draw at start and they are getting their negative/ground from the bolts going through them, if there is a high resistance in the circuit from a loose wire it will melt them, especially small gauge like the negative. I would get your starter tested from an auto mech, it doesn't cost much for piece of mind. I am an electrician by trade but I don't work a lot with DC voltages and I am unsure how the starters are wound. If you are still having a problem with your wiring after checking the starter, recheck all the connections for correct termination. As you have seen it isn't hard to confuse the HT wires, even easier to put the 12v cables in the wrong terminals. End of the day Check tightness, and correct termination.
Can I ask, has the starter given you any indication of bad starting by being slow? or draining the battery when starting??
 

Jiggz

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Oct 23, 2009
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3,909
Re: 1985 85 hp ignition help

got in there and straightened it up. it was crossed wires at cdi to coil. still havent got it to start as while trying ,small ground from terminal to main ground melted. not sure about this.tested starter and there is continuity between hot and ground. is this correct. the ground that melted was only one that was hot to touch. took a picture of terminal block but having trouble uploading it. thanks for your help so far.been spot on!

Need to see the pics so we can diagnose it properly. Identifying the burnt wire as "small ground wire" is not specific enough.
 

ammermanfam

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Jun 22, 2009
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Re: 1985 85 hp ignition help

Will try again when I get to a desktop to upload photo. Figured part of it out, didn't have ground from rectifier hooked to starter. Had it hooked to terminal ground. Also I am unsure if I lost it moving houses with parts spread on a table but seems to me there should be a heavy Guage ground going from block behind starter to main ground from battery. Is this correct? Sure would explain cooked wire.
 

Nordin

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Jun 12, 2010
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2,588
Re: 1985 85 hp ignition help

Yes there should be a heavy gauge (thick wire) from engine block to lower pan (ground).
I always connect my negative wire from battery to the engine block.
This eliminate bad/melting wires during starting, then there also must be a wire from block to lower pan making sure the choke and other functions that are grounding to the pan/midleg part working properly.
 

MickLovin

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Feb 18, 2013
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Re: 1985 85 hp ignition help

You can see my main negative/ground bolted under the starter, but there is also a small gauge negative from the frame of the starter under one of it's bolts to the rect/reg, the body of the starter is in contact with the grounded power head but due to paint etc it doesn't get a good ground and it is why it has the small gauge ground from the body of the reg/rect which is bolted directly to the power head. I can imagine if you didn't have this wire hooked up, you may cause the starter to draw more current due to bad grounding or use another source to get it's grounding.
Nordin, I take it, that is the ground from the terminal block going to bolt of the start relay and coil and dizzy ground when you mention the lower pan?
 

MickLovin

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Re: 1985 85 hp ignition help

You can see my main negative/ground bolted under the starter, but there is also a small gauge negative from the frame of the starter under one of it's bolts to the rect/reg, the body of the starter is in contact with the grounded power head but due to paint etc it doesn't get a good ground and it is why it has the small gauge ground from the body of the reg/rect which is bolted directly to the power head. I can imagine if you didn't have this wire hooked up, you may cause the starter to draw more current due to bad grounding or use another source to get it's grounding.
Nordin, I take it, that is the ground from the terminal block going to bolt of the start relay and coil and dizzy ground when you mention the lower pan?
 

ammermanfam

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Jun 22, 2009
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Re: 1985 85 hp ignition help

thanks for the help guys! got that part of rebuild taken care of. posting new thread for help on trigger.
 
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