1985 Force 125 problems....PLEASE HELP!!!!

[Newb]

Ok everyone, I posted a question about the problems on my '85 Force 125 several months ago, and after several months of working on the motor off and on, I'm still not any closer to getting it running. Here's the problems. Last summer I had a rod bearing split a cage and chew up the needle bearings, so I completely rebuilt the motor from top to bottom last winter with everything except new pistons, which were in great shape. The motor ran great before the bearing exploded, but I have spent all summer since the rebuild attempting to get this thing to start and run. First of all, no matter how new of a battery I put in it, it cranks over pretty slow. I thought something might be binding up, but if I pull the plugs out, it turns over nice and smoothly. The compression is about 150-155 on all 4 cylinders now though, so this is quite difficult for the old starter to overcome. I'm going to try a new starter soon, but I've run across another problem. When I do get it to crank over, there is now no spark on number 3 and 4. I still get some spark from 1 and 2, but it seems weak. Could this all be caused by the motor not turning over fast enough? One time when I had a fresh battery and a cold starter, I got it to fire up for about 20 seconds with number 3 and 4 spark plugs out, but as soon as I put them back in, it won't crank fast enough to even attempt to fire. As I said, it ran and started great before the bearing let go and I've never had any electrical problems before this. Everything was labeled and put back together just like it came apart after the rebuild, so I'm at a loss here. Could the starter be the whole problem and just not have the power to crank the motor fast enough to fire properly with the restored compression after rebuilding? The carbs and fuel supply are fine, so it's got to be something electrical. I've run out of ideas (and patience) with this thing. I really like the boat and I'd hate to have to get a new motor after spending all the cash rebuilding the Force. It would be nice to be able to hit the lake at least once this year, though. Any ideas or suggestions from the group would be greatly appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks in advance,<br />John

 

[lonewolf5347]

Re: 1985 Force 125 problems....PLEASE HELP!!!!

CHECK ALL GROUNDS THAT THEY ARE GOOD CONNECTION.I WOULD REPLACE THE STARTER MOTOR.NO SPARK ON 3@4 CYLINDER SWAP STATOR WIRES AND SEE IF PROBLEM MOVE TO 1@2 CYLINDER IF SO YOUR STATOR IS SAYING GOOD-BYE.TRY www.seilermarine.com mike prices are great when it come to stator.

 

[Hooty]

Re: 1985 Force 125 problems....PLEASE HELP!!!!

That engine needs to spin 300rpm or so, with the starter, to start when everything else is o-k. Is it turning that fast?<br /><br />c/6<br /><br />Hooty

 

[Dave H]

Re: 1985 Force 125 problems....PLEASE HELP!!!!

I have twin 125's on my Bayliner and had similar troubles. With respect to the other suggested remedies. I would also recommend that you check and/or replace your negative and positive battery leads. I discovered that internal corrosion caused excessive resistance (on my engines)that it was enough to not allow either engine to "crank" effeciently. One way to determine excessive resistance is to "feel" the leads after cranking. If they feel warm or even HOT, then your problem may indeed be excessive resistance. As with your delema, I came within a inch of replacing both starters But opted to replace the leads as a last ditch effort. Boy was I surprized at how much more effecient those motors cranked. In addition I installed a wire grade higher than the original. Hope this helps.<br /><br />By the way. I am going to rebuild one of my 125's and would like some good feedback on your experiences. Good or Bad

 

[Newb]

Re: 1985 Force 125 problems....PLEASE HELP!!!!

Thanks for the replies. I haven't had a chance to try switching the stator wires yet, but could the stator really go out just sitting? Everything worked fine before the rebuild, but it hasn't worked even once since it was put back together. As for the cranking speed, either my tach isn't working, or it isn't cranking fast enough to register an RPM because it never moves the needle during cranking. My tach starts at 200RPM, by the way. It is noticably slower cranking than before the rebuild. Like I said earlier though, if I pull plugs 3 and 4, it will spin over good and try to fire 1 and 2. It will spin over just as good with 1 and 2 out, but 3 and 4 still do not try to fire. Once I put all 4 plugs back in though, it won't crank fast at all. I'm going to have my starter load tested and the windings checked out before I spend the extra money to get another starter. Hopefully I'll get a chance to do that this week sometime. One other thing I noticed is that based on the wiring diagram in my Clymer manual, someone at one point had wired my ignitions together instead of being seperate. The four boxes with the plug wires coming off of them (forgot which ones these were, blue or black) are supposed to be wired up individually, but the wiring now has 1 and 3 wired together and 2 and 4 are together. I am pretty sure this is how it was when I got it based on the labeling I made before rebuild, but could this be causing a problem? I know very little about boat motor electronics, so I don't know if this would work or not. I know the motor ran good before the bearing failure, so unless something has failed while sitting or something was mistakenly wired wrong during re-build, I don't know why it won't run now. I appreciate all the help and tips and hope to keep some more coming so I can figure this thing out before the snow flies.<br /><br />Thanks again,<br />John

 

[Newb]

Re: 1985 Force 125 problems....PLEASE HELP!!!!

Dave,<br /> I thought the same problem might be occuring on my boat, so I replaced both battery cables with new ones just to make sure, but it didn't make any noticable difference. As for rebuilding the motor, it was pretty straight forward. The hard part was finding the parts, especially a bearing cage to replace the one it shattered. Every dealer I found had the needle bearings, but not the cages themselves. I ended up getting a used cage locally and then buying the rebuild parts online. At the time, I didn't know of many places on the web for boat parts, but I happened to find a place out of Hawaii that had Force parts. I got new rings, water pump, full bearings and gaskets, and new head bolts and it cost me almost $850. Their prices didn't seem bad at the time, but after seeing some other sites since then, I didn't get too good of a deal. Add to this the increased shipping from Hawaii, and it really wasn't the best deal. From what I've seen, I could have gotten the exact same parts for around $500 with shipping included from one of the other parts dealers. If I were to do it again, I would get the parts from either Seilermarine (there is a link on lonewolf's reply) or from Outboardparts.com as they both have very competitive prices and seem to carry almost everything needed to renew an aging Force motor. I hope some of this info helps you out. If there are any specifics questions about the rebuild that you want to ask, feel free. I'll do my best to answer them for you. Best of luck on your rebuild.<br /><br />John