1986 Force 85hp Won't start

[Mike 23]

Hello all,

I recently bought a 1986 Bayliner from a guy who had it for about 2 years. He told me it needs a battery so i replace the battery as it wasn't a marine battrey. I tried to start it and it won't start. Engine cranks fine. I have sparks on all three cylinders and looks like gas is coming to the carb. He told me he had to change the head gasket last year and showed me the receipt. I did a comp. test it is 1-75 2-90 3-75. Is this too low? Any other test i can do to find where the problem is?

ANy help is greatly appreciated!

Mike

 

[bowhuntrrl]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

Compression is way too low !! Anything under 100 lbs (which is marginal) is considered time for an overhaul. The compression is normally 145-155 lbs. Any variation of 10 lbs between high and low is bad, and anything under 100 is bad. Time to pull the cylinder head and look for problems. You may need to get it bored out and have new pistons installed. Something to try is to squirt some oil in each cylinder and then check compression. If it comes up, this confirms either bad or stuck rings, scored cylinders or worn pistons.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

Did the guy you bought it from show you how to start it? You need to push in the key and hold it in while turning to start to choke the engine. You must also either pull out the control handle and advance the throttle to fast idle or push the button in the center of the control handle and advance the throttle to fast idle. If you do not do this, some of these engines just will not start--Period! Once the engine is warmed up, bring the throttle back to idle and push the throttle lever back in. Push the lever quickly about 1/3 of the way either forward or backward to put the engine in respective gear then feed in more throttle to go

 

[Mike 23]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

Hi Frank,

No he didn't. I tried to started in netural position by holding down the chock botton and cranking the engine. I will try your advise and see how it goes. Thank you!
Mike

 

[Mike 23]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

Saga still continues. I asked around and found out the proper way to start the motor - hold down choke and shift in neutral - but the same problem it does puff but won't start. It feels like it doesn't bring the gas to cylinders. I asked my buddy to spray Cab. cleaner to the carbs no change. iIt brings it to carb. but it looks like it pushes the gas out instead of sucking it in.

I read in manual that each cylinder is sealed to cread the preasure and vacume. Is it possible that the seal is broken.

It looks like the engine was overheated ( head casket replaced) I am worry that the inside the engine is also damaged.

Any suggestion why it can not bring the gas to spark plugs. How hard is to re-do the overhead.
Thank you!

 

[bowhuntrrl]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

What part of my post about your compression being too low don't you understand ???? The engine will not start with low compression, period !!! With low compression, there is not enough vacuum created in the motor to move the intake charge, and possibly even run the fuel pump, not to mention the actual combustion process. Since it was overheated, you need to pull the head and inspect the cylinders for scuffing. There is a good chance that the rings have lost their tension from the overheating. Time for an overhaul , at least the top end !!!

 

[4runneradam]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

I asked my buddy to spray Cab. cleaner to the carbs no change.

You want to spray STARTER fluid, not carb cleaner. Carb cleaner will NOT get the engine going.

 

[MWBROWN]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

Put the engine in a box and sent it to me. .... LOL

Only spray fuel oit mixture in cylinders. Other will harm the engine, if it is not ruined anyway.

All the above are correct. No compression, no run. Start sequence is a must on these 85's.

Push throttle forward in nuetral, press key in for choke, try to start while some one spray mixture in. Might start, might not.

I wonder if the head gasket was installed properly. Either way, you need to pop the top, so to speak.

Use the suggestions you get here. THese guys know what the are doing.

Have fun,

Mike

 

[Mike 23]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

I actually followed your advice, Bowhuntrrl, and got a mechanic to look at the engine. His reading came out better than mine 100, 120, 100. He removed all three cabs and clean them up and put them back up. When we cranked the engine again I could see gas flew to cabs but the piston didn?t suck it in. We then opened the head to see what is inside and he said the pistons and cylinders looked okay. No signs of damage. The head casket is new, but the previous owner didn?t machine the head before putting the new gasket on (very cheap workmanship). Anyhow the mechanic thinks the problem is the crankshaft or its bearings. I didn?t want him to go any further as the cost is very substantial. I thought I can do it myself. I have 5 yrs car mechanic experience and some tools. I bought the Manuel on-line. So what do you think? Is it doable? or most cost effective?

I am hoping to narrow down the problem so I know what to look for. One thing that I am sure of the problem is not electrical and it is well inside the engine.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

If the engine is "puffing" like it is trying to start, the problem is most likely not with crankshaft or bearings. You say it seems not to take in the fuel. Pull off the carbs and look in at the reeds. If you have broken or bent reeds, the engine will try to induct fuel/air mixture but will not seal the crancase and will not pump it to the cylinders. Before you do anything, remove all three plugs, squirt about a teasponn of fuel/oil mix into each cylinder, then replace the plugs and try to fire it. If it fires and runs till the prime runs out (a few seconds) Then you know that the problem is from the reeds forward.
So you know: Reeds are thin flat pieces of metal mounted to a "V" block. when you look into the manifold with the carbs off, you will be looking into the inside of the "V" and will see the reed petals resting on the plate. There will be 10 per each cylinder. If they are missing, it will be immediately obvious. If they are bent, again it will be obvious. There are no subtlties here.
Improper timing could also make the engine "puff" as if it wanted to start. Timing should be somewhere close to 0 deg. at start position and 30 deg. before TDC at wide open throttle.
Its almost too obvious: Please check to be sure the plug wires are on the proper cylinder: Top coil to top cylinder, middle to middle, and bottom to bottom. If two wires are reversed, the engine will spit and not start.

 

[eedwards]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

You want to spray STARTER fluid, not carb cleaner. Carb cleaner will NOT get the engine going.

DO NOT use starting fluid in a outboard you will damage it.

 

[bowhuntrrl]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

I actually followed your advice, Bowhuntrrl, and got a mechanic to look at the engine. His reading came out better than mine 100, 120, 100. He removed all three cabs and clean them up and put them back up. When we cranked the engine again I could see gas flew to cabs but the piston didn?t suck it in. We then opened the head to see what is inside and he said the pistons and cylinders looked okay. No signs of damage. The head casket is new, but the previous owner didn?t machine the head before putting the new gasket on (very cheap workmanship). Anyhow the mechanic thinks the problem is the crankshaft or its bearings. I didn?t want him to go any further as the cost is very substantial. I thought I can do it myself. I have 5 yrs car mechanic experience and some tools. I bought the Manuel on-line. So what do you think? Is it doable? or most cost effective?

I am hoping to narrow down the problem so I know what to look for. One thing that I am sure of the problem is not electrical and it is well inside the engine.

Honestly, wait until your manual comes (I hope it's not the ones on CD from Ebay), hopefully a Clymer. Read it through and try to assess whether or not you feel up to the task. I really don't put a lot of faith in what your mechanic said about the crankshaft and bearings. It still has compression problems, even with his readings. The variance is too high between cylinders, and the compression is still borderline.

At this point, you really have nothing to lose and a lot to gain by learning yourself. I started in auto dealerships 40 years ago. I've also worked in a Harley dealership and a marina. I usually learn something new every day, it's never too late to learn something new.

I would plan on pulling the head off, take a real good look at the cylinders for scuffing. If you see some then you will need to either hone them or get them honed out. A ball hone will work but not take any material off and make good crosshatches. Then put in some new rings, put it all together and see where you are at.

Let us know when you get your manual and I'm sure some of us here will try to walk you through it a step at a time.

Remember, you need 3 things for an engine to run: compression, spark, and fuel. If you're getting spark and fuel, that only leaves one thing:compression.

 

[Mike 23]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

Thank you guys for your quick feedback!

Since the head is open I will follow your advice first I am going to check the reeds to see if there is any broken ones and then move to change the rings. Bowhuntrrl, how did you guess? I bought the CD manual. Pictures are very dark, hard to see the parts. Don't recommend to anyone.

I need to some gaskets and rings.

Cheers!

 

[bowhuntrrl]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

Thank you guys for your quick feedback!

Since the head is open I will follow your advice first I am going to check the reeds to see if there is any broken ones and then move to change the rings. Bowhuntrrl, how did you guess? I bought the CD manual. Pictures are very dark, hard to see the parts. Don't recommend to anyone.

I need to some gaskets and rings.

Cheers!

Been there and done that with the CD manual, it really sucks !!!! I just ordered a Clymer from Ebay. I may be selling it since I'm looking at another boat today. Then all my Force props, spare parts and manual will be up for sale. Damn, I didn't even use the boat with the 50 Force on it yet, been too busy making it run perfectly.

 

[Mike 23]

Re: 1986 Force 85hp Won't start

"Pull off the carbs and look in at the reeds. If you have broken or bent reeds, the engine will try to induct fuel/air mixture but will not seal the crancase and will not pump it to the cylinders."


Frank, here is my first attempt i pulled off the cabs along with the Reeds. As you said there are 10 per cylinder. I looked throught the inside of the V and could see the daylight coming through some of the them 5 in total. some are very obvious. specially 1st cylinder. All three cylinder have 1 or 2 that are not resting on the plate. Is it possible to fix this or i need to replace the part?

Secondly, 1st cylinder has some sort of deposit all over it right behine the Reed. I attached a picture for reference. Do you know what it is? I thought i jut vacume it. WHat do you think?

So far nothing painful. I made some drawing to make sure i can put everything back together.

Thank you!