1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

[swfl_fishin]

Okay. Been working all day trying to figure this out. Here's my situation:

I have (2) batteries with a Perko (OFF-1-ALL-2) switch. The first battery is a starting battery and the second is a deep cycle.

Problem: The voltage reading of either battery is 11.88v even when the motor is running. The motor will start with the switch in the 1 or the ALL position. It will not start with the switch in the 2 position.

I disconnected the rectifier wires and used the ohmmeter to verify that current is only flowing one way.

I also measured the coils of the stator. They may be out of spec slightly, but don't know if it is enough to make it fail. The specs say between 0.22 & 0.32 on the R x 1 scale. Problem is that my multimeter only has a 200 ohm scale. On that scale, my reading was 00.6.

Any ideas here? Shouldn't the voltage be ~13v when the motor is running? Should I replace the stator? Replace the batteries?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Doesn't sound like the batteries are getting charged. You should get 13.5 VDC+ across the battery terminals when motor is at fast idle. If you measure the AC voltage across the yellows from the4 stator, you'll have an idea of whether the stator is doing it's thing. You should get =>30 VAC across that pair if the stator is healthy. If it is, the rectifier/regulator is proably bad, assuming all wiring is solid.

 

[swfl_fishin]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Jim.

Thanks for your quick response. There are actually 3 wires from the stator (Yellow, Yellow/Blue, & Yellow/Gray). So, the question is.....where do I read the AC voltage at? Thanks.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Not clear how you have checked the rectifier. See Joe Reeves' instructions on the FAQ board HERE. BUT if you are using a digital meter use the "diode test" range because they dont necessarily work for diode testing on the ohms ranges.

Three yellow wires from the stator ? you should get approx the same resistance between yellow and yellow/grey and between yellow/blue and yellow/grey. Double that between yellow and yellow/blue .

You could measure the AC volts output from the stator. You should get well in excess of 12volts with a few revs on between yellow and yellow/grey and also between yellow/blue and yellow/grey. (I do not know what to expect between yellow and yellow/blue)

If all is well you should get well over 12 volts DC between the red wire and ground rising as the revs rise if your batteries are good and charged.
It would be wise to charge both batteries and check that they are both good. With good batteries properly charged you'd be looking for around 14 volts (maybe a quite a bit higher from the non-regulated rectifier fitted to that engine) but it'll take a while to build up if the batteries are not already charged.
A true deep cycle battery is not designed to supply the high currents required for engine starting.

You may damage the rectifier if you switch to both batteries off while the engine is running and you will kill it if you ever connect the batteries with the polarity reversed.

At 11.88 volts your batteries are just about discharged, If they are taken that low regularly or if left that low for long its curtains for them. Take 'em off and charge them properly. Charge them until you can get about 12.7volts after they have rested (no charge or discharge) for 12 hours.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Diagram of rectifier if it means anything to you.
Top diagram is for direct connection of AC lighting to the stator when rectifier and battery are not fitted.
Bottom diagram is of connections to rectifier (no distinction is made between the yellow wires in this case, in fact after market rectifiers just have three plain yellow wires)

 

[swfl_fishin]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Hey Vic.

Thanks for the reply. I checked the rectifier by following the troubleshooting directions in my Seloc Marine Online subscription for my motor.

They don't explain where to measure AC from the stator though, and after reading your post twice, I'm still not sure.

Do I put the meter leads between Yellow & Yellow/Gray? Also between Red & Yellow?

Clarification would be greatly appreciated.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Forget the red ... that's 12VDC, only the ones with yellow. Seloc manuals aren't terribly helpful when you need detail.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Clarification would be greatly appreciated

Measre the AC volts between the yellow and the yellow/gray.

Also between the yellow/blue and the yellow/gray

It's where I have marked 12volts on the top diagram but with no load you should get a good bit more than 12volts at both points with a few revs on.


As said red is the DC positive output, as indicated on the lower diagram
The case is the negative and is grounded.

 

[swfl_fishin]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Okay...Updated info....After fully charging the batteries, I started up the motor, and went to work reading the AC voltages at the terminal block. Here are my readings with the motor at idle:

Yellow to Yellow/Blue = ~2.5v
Yellow/Gray to Yellow/Blue = ~2.5v
Yellow to Yellow/Gray = ~5v

So....that means that the stator is bad right? So, my resistance readings of the stator from earlier were probably accurate, and the stator was suspect.

That leads me to my next series of questions.

1) When I look up the stator for my motor using the 'BOAT MOTOR PARTS' link above, it gives me this. That is only a charging coil of a stator and doesn't look anything like a stator obviously. The other thing that grabs my attention is that there are only (2) wires in the picture. I know from doing my measurements that there are (3) wires. What gives?

2) This repair job would require the flywheel to be removed, right? Any special tools needed or words of advice?

Thank you to all who have chimed in to help me out.

 

[swfl_fishin]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Okay....now I am thoroughly confused. Apparently, there is a part number for the stator (0582930) and the charge coil (0581670). Which do I replace? What exactly did I test yesterday following the Seloc manual? Let me paste what they had me do, and maybe you can give me a clue:

Very seldom does the stator cause problems in the charging circuit. However, if other checks have been performed and the stator is suspected as the problem area, first make a careful visual check of the stator for physical damage. If the visual inspection fails to indicate the problem, proceed as follows to test the stator:

Disconnect both battery cables. Disconnect the Yellow, Yellow/Blue and the Yellow/Grey stator leads from the terminal block.

Set the meter to the Rx 1000 scale. Make contact with the Black meter lead to a good engine ground.

Make contact with the Red meter lead to the Yellow/Blue stator lead and then to the Yellow lead, and finally to the Yellow/Grey lead. In each case, the meter should register NO continuity. If any other reading is registered, the stator is grounded and MUST be replaced.

Set the ohmmeter to the R x 1 scale. Make contact with the Black meter lead to the Yellow/Blue stator lead. Make contact with the Red meter lead to the Yellow stator lead. The meter should register between 0.22 and 0.32 ohms for all models covered in this service with the following two exceptions:

1971-75 50 hp - 1.0-2.0 ohms.
55 hp - 1.0-1.6 ohms.
Keep the black meter lead in place and move the Red meter lead to contact the Yellow/Grey stator lead. The meter should register the same reading as in the previous test.

Remember, my readings were 0.6 and they should have been between 0.22 & 0.32 Is that the charge coil or the stator?

Please help.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Looks like the stator is toast. yes, the flywheel has to come off. Look in the "Top Secret File" for info about pulling the flywheel.

BTW, you would be better served with a "real" OEM shop manual. Most around here don't consider the third party ones worth owning.

 

[swfl_fishin]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Jim,

Where would I get an OEM shop manual? It seems to me that iboats.com has been major pimping Seloc as long as I have been a member here. Look at the ads. I have yet to see an ad on this site for OEM shop manual (except in your signature).

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

outboardbooks.com
Ebay - Tashasdaddy know of a vendor who regularly sells there.
There are other sources as well.

 

[swfl_fishin]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Thanks Jim.

In the meantime, it just occurred to me that the stator also is an important part of the ignition system, right? Wouldn't a failed stator also affect the motor running? Could this be what is causing my other issue? See this thread: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=294256

I appreciate your help.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Yes, it is part of the ignition system, but both parts (charging and ignition) are totally separate, just mounted on the same piece of metal. One has no effect on the other.

I see now this stator is very different than the older ones, which had the stator and charge coils integrated into one physical piece. Have yet to work on one of these!

 

[Vic.S]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Okay....now I am thoroughly confused

Sorry about the confusion. It arises because sometimes the word stator is used to mean the charge coil and sometimes the coil that powers the ignition system. (sometimes both are combined into one assembly)

582930 is the charge coil,

587610 is the coil that powers the ignition.

The diagram HERE will help perhaps.

#41 is the charge coil and is described in the parts list as "Stator Assy".
# 27 is 587610 and is described as "Coil and lamination assy"

Full pats list for the ignition system HERE

 

[swfl_fishin]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Update to the update.....Good news...the part numbers don't matter (at least for now)

After speaking with my friend today (marine mechanic), he told me that I was testing the charging system all wrong!

He said to not fully charge the batteries before testing. He also told me to repeat the test at about 2000 rpm.

With the motor at 2000 rpm, I'm reading about 14v AC at the terminal block, and almost as much at the batteries.

Thank you to everyone for your assistance and guidance on this non-issue.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: 1987 30hp (E30ELCUB) Charging Question

Your friend gave you good advice. Measuring the voltage across the battery terminals at fast idle tells immediately if there's any charging going on.