1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

[wildmaninal]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

This is only my opinion of the situation. If the foot turns out to be the problem then it could possibly rebuilt but it is sometimes easier and cheaper to replace it.

If the head is siezed after all then it depends on how the cylinder walls look, the condition of the crank shaft, and what the condition of the valves are. If all looks good in the power head then you might get away with a new set of pistons, rods, rings, and maybe a few other parts.

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

This is only my opinion of the situation. If the foot turns out to be the problem then it could possibly rebuilt but it is sometimes easier and cheaper to replace it.

If the head is siezed after all then it depends on how the cylinder walls look, the condition of the crank shaft, and what the condition of the valves are. If all looks good in the power head then you might get away with a new set of pistons, rods, rings, and maybe a few other parts.

what would that cost?

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

It could cost you a pretty penny for a power head rebuild but it depends on who you deal with on labor and what parts they use (sierra, or brp parts for example). I don't know honestly. By the time it is all said and done you could probably use the money to buy a good used motor in the same horse power if not bigger for $500, maybe less maybe more.

For the foot, once again couldn't tell you an exact price but if you kept you eye out on Ebay you might find one for $200, or you might find one for more.

Browse the internet with your model number in hand and see what you can find out. You should be able to find some of the parts if not all of them here on Iboats.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

JBVolvo,

Lets not get nuts yet. I think it's a bit premature pronouncing the patient dead before fully assessing the real problem. Those twins can take quite a bit of abuse and still survive just fine. Post the model number of your motor. Look on the transom bracket for the model number.

Drop the lower unit and remove the water pump housing and impeller. Try turning the drive shaft only clockwise, if the drive shaft turns , the lower unit is not locked up. Depending on the model number of your motor, you should either have a direct drive lower unit (forward gear only) or a Neutral and Forward geared lower unit. If you have a gear shift motor, you can manually shift the gears with the shift rod. Shift from forward to neutral gears while turning the drive shaft. You should see the prop shaft (and prop) turning in both directions. If alls well so far, re-install the impeller and pump housing following my previous steps. Look at the tips of the impeller arms for any signs of melting. This would indicate excess friction (no water lubrication) from the lower unit not being submerged deep enough in the water test barrel. Leave the lower unit off for now. BYW, I mentioned removing the water pump and impeller to make it easier to turn the drive shaft. Sometimes it's easier to turn the drive shaft by clamping a PADDED set of vice grips on the drive shaft well above the water pump. This is done if you choose to not remove the water pump housing because the added friction of the impeller in it's cup makes the shaft difficult to turn by hand.

Lower unit lube change procedure:
To drain-remove both (top) Vent and (bottom) Drain screws from lower unit (both flat blade screws).
To Fill: Place new lube bottle tip into lower Drain hole and dispense new lube into lower unit until it shows at top Vent opening. Without removing lube bottle, replace the top Vent screw with new sealing washer. Remove lube bottle and replace lower Drain screw with new washer. Filling from the bottom hole expels air from the top Vent as the fresh lube goes in. The draining and filling is done with the lower unit in a normal vertical position.


When the motor is cold, try pulling the starter rope and see if the flywheel turns. You can remove the plugs and squirt some PB Blaster penetrating liquid ( or equivalent) into each plug hole. Lay motor horizontal with the plug holes pointing up and let soak. With a bit of luck the flywheel will turn . When you get the pistons moving, do a compression test. The compression test will give you a good indication of the damage , if any, was done.

Adapt a garden hose with a short section of rubber hose that will fit over the end of the copper water tube. Turn on the water and see if you can push water through the power head. This will verify that water from the pump can do it's job when you install the lower unit back on the motor.

Install the lower unit , paying close attention that the water tube is inserted into the water pump housing rubber grommet. A bit of grease on the end of the water tube helps insertion.

Mount motor in a test barrel with water well above the water pump and start motor. You should see a fine mist of water being sprayed from the 3-4 small holes on the rear of the midsection. This verifies water circulation through the power head and that the impeller is rotating and the water tube is properly inserted into the water pump housing. As a rough test of the cooling system, place your finger on the motor head. If you can leave you finger for a few seconds without getting burned, it's being cooled. The worse case is there's a blockage in the power heads cooling passages allowing little if any water through the power head to effectively cool the motor. The fix would be to remove the 6 head bolts and motor head. Clean passages, re-install head using a new head gasket and torque head bolts to specs.

No special tools are needed for any of the previous steps, but patience is a plus. I personally think you have a better than average shot at getting the motor running again just fine. Feel free to ask any questions that you have. Folks here at iboats are more than willing to help. Remember, the only dumb questions are the one's not asked.

Good Luck

BTW, your motor doesn't have valves.....

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

JBVolvo,

Lets not get nuts yet. I think it's a bit premature pronouncing the patient dead before fully assessing the real problem. Those twins can take quite a bit of abuse and still survive just fine. Post the model number of your motor. Look on the transom bracket for the model number.

Drop the lower unit and remove the water pump housing and impeller. Try turning the drive shaft only clockwise, if the drive shaft turns , the lower unit is not locked up. Depending on the model number of your motor, you should either have a direct drive lower unit (forward gear only) or a Neutral and Forward geared lower unit. If you have a gear shift motor, you can manually shift the gears with the shift rod. Shift from forward to neutral gears while turning the drive shaft. You should see the prop shaft (and prop) turning in both directions. If alls well so far, re-install the impeller and pump housing following my previous steps. Look at the tips of the impeller arms for any signs of melting. This would indicate excess friction (no water lubrication) from the lower unit not being submerged deep enough in the water test barrel. Leave the lower unit off for now. BYW, I mentioned removing the water pump and impeller to make it easier to turn the drive shaft. Sometimes it's easier to turn the drive shaft by clamping a PADDED set of vice grips on the drive shaft well above the water pump. This is done if you choose to not remove the water pump housing because the added friction of the impeller in it's cup makes the shaft difficult to turn by hand.

Lower unit lube change procedure:
To drain-remove both (top) Vent and (bottom) Drain screws from lower unit (both flat blade screws).
To Fill: Place new lube bottle tip into lower Drain hole and dispense new lube into lower unit until it shows at top Vent opening. Without removing lube bottle, replace the top Vent screw with new sealing washer. Remove lube bottle and replace lower Drain screw with new washer. Filling from the bottom hole expels air from the top Vent as the fresh lube goes in. The draining and filling is done with the lower unit in a normal vertical position.


When the motor is cold, try pulling the starter rope and see if the flywheel turns. You can remove the plugs and squirt some PB Blaster penetrating liquid ( or equivalent) into each plug hole. Lay motor horizontal with the plug holes pointing up and let soak. With a bit of luck the flywheel will turn . When you get the pistons moving, do a compression test. The compression test will give you a good indication of the damage , if any, was done.

Adapt a garden hose with a short section of rubber hose that will fit over the end of the copper water tube. Turn on the water and see if you can push water through the power head. This will verify that water from the pump can do it's job when you install the lower unit back on the motor.

Install the lower unit , paying close attention that the water tube is inserted into the water pump housing rubber grommet. A bit of grease on the end of the water tube helps insertion.

Mount motor in a test barrel with water well above the water pump and start motor. You should see a fine mist of water being sprayed from the 3-4 small holes on the rear of the midsection. This verifies water circulation through the power head and that the impeller is rotating and the water tube is properly inserted into the water pump housing. As a rough test of the cooling system, place your finger on the motor head. If you can leave you finger for a few seconds without getting burned, it's being cooled. The worse case is there's a blockage in the power heads cooling passages allowing little if any water through the power head to effectively cool the motor. The fix would be to remove the 6 head bolts and motor head. Clean passages, re-install head using a new head gasket and torque head bolts to specs.

No special tools are needed for any of the previous steps, but patience is a plus. I personally think you have a better than average shot at getting the motor running again just fine. Feel free to ask any questions that you have. Folks here at iboats are more than willing to help. Remember, the only dumb questions are the one's not asked.

Good Luck

BTW, your motor doesn't have valves.....

thanks for all the help. its a 4 HP with only forward and neutral.
Evinrude Model: 44RCUD
S/N: B1374707

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

I just sold this exact motor, running, for $175 on Craigslist. Granted mine was a good bit beat up but it was running. Have you ever taken the top of this motor apart? If you haven't learn from my mistake DON'T REMOVE THAT BIG PHILLIPS SCREW ON THE TOP!!!!! It holds the recoil starter together and doesn't have anything to do with removing the cowl. The cowl is attached from the bottom.

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

local shop told me they won't even work out them, because an 87 4hp basically would exceed its worth with an hour of diagnosis fee.

they said in the book its worth $50-90 total, and that its likely junked if it overheated and seized.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

Find a different shop. I got the same run around on mine 2 years ago. Then I found this great guy in the middle of nowhere in the woods that will work on anything.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

Changing the impeller is not a very different job to doing it on my 6hp. I reckon, I am afraid, that you failed to locate the water tube in the top of the water pump when you refitted the lower unit.

The result is that you ran it without any cooling, it overheated, hence the smells, you kept restarting it until it seized up.

You have probably wrecked the pistons, scored the cylinder walls, fried all the seals and maybe broken the piston rings and warped the cylinder head. Running on 100:1 instead of 50:1 wont have helped and may mean that some of the bearings are also damaged.

You can only hope that its not quite that bad, only stripping down will tell, but if you can get it turning you can take a chance and run it (after sorting out the water tube).

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

Changing the impeller is not a very different job to doing it on my 6hp. I reckon, I am afraid, that you failed to locate the water tube in the top of the water pump when you refitted the lower unit.

The result is that you ran it without any cooling, it overheated, hence the smells, you kept restarting it until it seized up.

You have probably wrecked the pistons, scored the cylinder walls, fried all the seals and maybe broken the piston rings and warped the cylinder head. Running on 100:1 instead of 50:1 wont have helped and may mean that some of the bearings are also damaged.

You can only hope that its not quite that bad, only stripping down will tell, but if you can get it turning you can take a chance and run it (after sorting out the water tube).

I think you're probably right about the tube. I didnt even see the tube when I put the lower unit back on. I'm so bummed. A - I wasted a perfectly good little motor, and B - It was my Great Grandfathers, and my Dad let me use it.

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

It only has FWD and neutral, so it probably means nothing that I can turn the prop by hand one way and not the other right? (without removing the lower unit)

 

[Vic.S]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

It only has FWD and neutral, so it probably means nothing that I can turn the prop by hand one way and not the other right

I'm not sure about that. I would have expected the prop to turn freely in neutral but not in gear although there may be a fair bit of backlash.

Its worth dropping the lower unit again and checking that it really is the power head that's seized. (earlier there was warning about not undoing the screw in the centre of the motor cover, I think that applies to earlier models, yours I think has cover that splits into two halves, left and right) I am not sure how you remove the starter mechanism though. You must remove the whole thing as one unit I think because you do not want to let the spring out of there (talk about taking the lid off a can of worms if you do that ... more like a crouching tiger waiting to escape!)

Don't give up until you have found that it is beyond hope.

Folks on here will say you should have read the repair manual but in the UK we only do that if all else fails!

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

I'm not sure about that. I would have expected the prop to turn freely in neutral but not in gear although there may be a fair bit of backlash.

Its worth dropping the lower unit again and checking that it really is the power head that's seized. (earlier there was warning about not undoing the screw in the centre of the motor cover, I think that applies to earlier models, yours I think has cover that splits into two halves, left and right) I am not sure how you remove the starter mechanism though. You must remove the whole thing as one unit I think because you do not want to let the spring out of there (talk about taking the lid off a can of worms if you do that ... more like a crouching tiger waiting to escape!)

Don't give up until you have found that it is beyond hope.

Folks on here will say you should have read the repair manual but in the UK we only do that if all else fails!

yes thats correct. my cover doesnt have that screw that was mentioned.
The cover splits in half as you mentioned. I had the manual in front of me. It did not mention the copper tube - although I should've thought about the function of the grommet on the housing and realized it myself. Its my own fault.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

JBVolvo, Just out if curiosity, where do you live?

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

JBVolvo, Just out if curiosity, where do you live?

RI/MA

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

UPDATE:

I broke it loose using liquid wrench in the cyllinders and gently taping the pistons till I felt it move. Then continuing to pull the cord while spraying the liquid wrench in to loosten it up further.

After this seemed ok, I put the spark plugs back in, closed the cover, and removed the lower unit. As far as I can assume, (it was too hard to tell when I pulled it apart) I believe I didnt line the cooling tube up to enter the waterpump housing.

I realigned it, and reinstalled the lower unit.
Hooked it up to the gas tank and it started on the first pull in a barrel of water.
Idled smooth, and I can feel cooling water jetting out of the black plastic in the back of the motor (3 or four holes on each side of the plastic cover).
It seems to spurt out every second or two. I assume thats normal cooling?

The head remained cool as well.

Only thing I noticed was a bit of blueish exhaust smoke. Maybe the lean/rich screw needs adjustment? Maybe it'll burn off eventually? Maybe not and its the result of the overheating damage? But I took it for a ride and it seemed to run well with good power.

Any thoughts?

Oh and one more question - (this was the case BEFORE the water pump replacement)...is it normal for lower unit oil to seap out of the hole in the lower unit (open holes/not the plugs where you fill from on the opposite side) if the motor is laid down on its side with the holes pointing down or is this a sign of a problem?
I noticed it did this after I replaced the lower unit oil. It doesnt drain out fast, but seaps if the motor is laying on its side (not upright) with those holes down towards the ground. Any words on this?

Thanks again.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

You got lucky on that one . I would do a compression check to see how much more life that motor has.

As for this seap, what color is the seap? This could be carbon and excess oil seaping out. As for the open holes you are talking about the one may be the exaust. Occasionally it will seap out after the motor has been ran.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

is it normal for lower unit oil to seap out of the hole in the lower unit

No of course it isn't. Think: if it seeps out it's going to leak out in use and water is going to get in.

If it really is lower unit oil then a gasket or O ring is letting it out.

BUT it is quite normal for unburnt oil from the fuel to leak out of the exhaust, which basically means any outlets and drain holes in the leg That will be black and gungy whereas lower unit oil will be, well the color of the oil you put in.

Sounds as though you have got away with the seizing up. A bit of blue smoke is no bad thing, it shows it's got plenty of lubrication. Run on 50:1 in future. Maybe a bit oilier even for a while in view of its recent experiences! Poor thing. If it starts easily and runs sweetly I would not go looking for trouble! Run it gently for a while as if you were breaking in a new one.

 

[PW2]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

All that liquid wrench you used has to go somewhere. I'm not surprised it's smoking, or that it's driiping things in places it ought not to be dripping.

If it were me, I'd change/replace the Gear Lube in the L/U, so that you have a known starting point, run it for a few hours, and recheck it.

These are pretty tough motors.

 

[JBVolvo]

Re: 1987 4HP Evinrude - stalled - seized?

You got lucky on that one . I would do a compression check to see how much more life that motor has.

As for this seap, what color is the seap? This could be carbon and excess oil seaping out. As for the open holes you are talking about the one may be the exaust. Occasionally it will seap out after the motor has been ran.

its clean lower unit oil. light amberish