1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

[freak007]

Hello all, I am planning to go look at a 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner. The owner has said that it has a 165hp mercruiser with a alpha 1 outdrive. But the pictures he sent me clearly shows a GM "v" type engine. My understanding is that the 165 was a inline 4 cylinder?

This would be my second boat, my first was a 17 foot Rinker with a 120hp mercruiser. My family really enjoyed that boat, but it was too small for the typical load of 4 adults and 2 to 3 children... Now the family has expanded and we are looking at up to 5 adults and 2 to 3 children (oldest is 6). The boat was used mostly for cruising the lakes/rivers as well as tubing and skiing. I like the idea of a bigger boat, as well as having a place for the little ones to nap out of the sun. Does it sound like the four winns would be a good match?

Any input is appriciated

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

Just make sure it is not the 3.7L 4 cylinder.

 

[DBreskin]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

I think the boat is too small for 5 adults and three (growing) children. The original design has only six seats. Although it's rated for 10 passengers I don't know where you'd put them.

 

[infideltarget]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

I think the boat is too small for 5 adults and three (growing) children. The original design has only six seats. Although it's rated for 10 passengers I don't know where you'd put them.

Agree 100%. With that crew, you really need to be looking at 20-24' for a bowrider, and 23'+ for anything with a cuddy, or its going to get way too cozy quickly. And IMO, with anything that size, a vortec v-6 would be the minimum powerplant. But that's just me.

 

[freak007]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

Thanks for the quick responses!

I am not 100% certain what engine is in this boat... I have not yet seen it in person. However, it is my understanding that the 165hp mercruiser was a 3.7l 4 cylinder... the pictures he has sent clearly show a GM V type engine with center bolt valve covers... could very well be a 4.3L vortech...

As for the size of the boat - I am looking to spend somewhere in the 4 to 6k range. I require a I/O. I am undecided about a bow rider or a cuddy... The last boat was a bow rider and did get "cozy", but the kids were younger and required additional baggage... The one thing that has me hesitant on the bow rider is I want to start visiting the great lakes (especially Superior and Michigan). I have been under the impression that bow riders are really not prefered for the great lakes... I also want to be able to run the rivers and smaller lakes, as well as tube/ski... a big draw of the cuddy is the availability of onboard "facilities" and sleeping quarters. But I don't want to get so big that tubing/skiing and river runs become a chore...

I am not an expert by any means... am I asking too much of one boat?

 

[Joshua Nichols]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

Wow.. Thats a lot of folks to haul.. They have those pontoon boats with inboards on them that will run in the 50MPH range.. I saw one once on the lake.. Very cool

I hate feeling cramped up on a boat.. I don't think a 19ft will do it for ya.. Also.. Find something with a larger power plant.. You are going to need some power to move all that weight.. 350..454 would be better..

I would be careful buying anything from someone who doesn't know what engine it has.. Show us the pictures... Also for 6k.. Buy newer with less headaches

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

Sounds like a good candidate for a deck boat.

 

[freak007]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

I fully understand being wary of an uneducated owner... I can see it going 2 ways:

1) ignorance has caused a lot of damage just by "not knowing"
2) ignorance has resulted in an outstanding maintnance history by having it professionally maintained...


http://picasaweb.google.com/m/viewer#album/Motori67/5388192500098668033

Asking price is $4500...


My family is 2 adults and 2 children (6 and 3). Most of the time would be just us cruising... The "extended family" is at most 3 more adults (maybe 4 to 5 times a year), but a fair amount of riding time would be spent with my family + 2 more adults and a 2 year old... My wife does not ski or tube, and does not feel comfortable driving the boat, so the only time we would be pulling would be when we are already loaded heavy...

 

[infideltarget]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

I fully understand being wary of an uneducated owner... I can see it going 2 ways:

1) ignorance has caused a lot of damage just by "not knowing"
2) ignorance has resulted in an outstanding maintnance history by having it professionally maintained...


http://picasaweb.google.com/m/viewer#album/Motori67/5388192500098668033

Asking price is $4500...


My family is 2 adults and 2 children (6 and 3). Most of the time would be just us cruising... The "extended family" is at most 3 more adults (maybe 4 to 5 times a year), but a fair amount of riding time would be spent with my family + 2 more adults and a 2 year old... My wife does not ski or tube, and does not feel comfortable driving the boat, so the only time we would be pulling would be when we are already loaded heavy...

The link is generic, and does not show a boat of any kind. Just the picsawab home screen.

 

[freak007]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

Let's try this...

http://picasaweb.google.com/Motori67/Boat

 

[infideltarget]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

Ok. The interior has been recovered...AT LEAST once. None of those seats are original, which means it has probably been exposed to plenty of weather. All older boats are prone to under deck rot, and there are PLENTY of Four Winns (and other makes too) on this forum that have undergone restorations for this issue. That would be clue #1 to have the boat surveyed by a pro prior to making an offer.

Beyond that, it looks fairly nice, but still prolly too small for what you are saying you will use it for. IMO...if you buy this boat, you will be looking to upgrade before the end of the season. Four Winns makes a quality boat...and I am partial to them for sure...but I really don't see this as the boat for your needs. But that is just me.

For the times it is just you two and the kids, it would be perfect. Add anyone else, and then try to pull a towable...with a cooler, wet towels, etc...etc...I think it would be way too small, and underpowered.

 

[produceguy]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

I don't think it's worth 4500$ but I do think there's enough room for you guys.

Well, it might be worth close to the asking price if the deck and transom are solid and there's no issues with the motor.

 

[infideltarget]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

I don't think it's worth 4500$ but I do think there's enough room for you guys.

See...I dont think $4500 is a bad asking price at all. In my area it would bring that quickly.

 

[Joshua Nichols]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

$4500.. Hard to say... Recovered stuff? Looks like a class job if it was.. The rear seats have been for-sure.. If the front was replaced.. They sure got GOOD quality matches

Steering wheel isn't original(aftermarket replacement).. I hate things with wires hanging down.. Hull is bad faded.. Rusty trailer?

$2500 would make me more happy.. Either way.. Not enough boat for ya bro.. Keep shopping..

 

[freak007]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

In my area, 4 to 6k will get you a mid 70s to late 80s, 18 to 22 foot cuddy, or 19 to 24 foot bow rider with a mercruiser. OMCs are cheaper... as are smaller and/or older boats.


Obviously buying something this age brings a lot of both mechanical as well as structual concerns... I do have the ability to repair any mechanical issues (I am an automotive tech), but do not have the time or space for any major issues until this fall. Structural issues I have no experiance with and would rather keep it that way...

Other boats that have caught my eye:

83 SeaRay 245 sundancer with 5.7 and alpha 1 - $6500
83 Celebrity 19 foot bow rider with 5.0 GM - $3800
89 Cheetah 19.5 foot bow rider with 4.3L -$4700


There are others... but I don't have enough info on them yet to decide how interested I am...

 

[spdracr39]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

I have 21 foot bow rider with a 220 hp v8 mercruiser and with 5 adults its pretty comfy and has plenty of power. Add a couple of kids and try to pull a tube and it would get cramped really quick. You also have to consider the stuff everyone needs like ice chest, towels, lifejackets, and such. Newer boats have better storage options making for more efficient use of space like built in coolers. Price is borderline if there are no mechanical issues but it's too small for what you want to use it for.

 

[infideltarget]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

$4500.. Hard to say... Recovered stuff? Looks like a class job if it was.. The rear seats have been for-sure.. If the front was replaced.. They sure got GOOD quality matches

Steering wheel isn't original(aftermarket replacement).. I hate things with wires hanging down.. Hull is bad faded.. Rusty trailer?

$2500 would make me more happy.. Either way.. Not enough boat for ya bro.. Keep shopping..

Yep. The lounge seats were recovered. The originals would have had the Four Winns logo embroidered into the top cushion. Those are prolly straight up aftermarket lounge seats. Not saying that is necessarily bad, just that it means the others were trashed for some reason. That was one of the selling points with the boat I have now. The original interior is almost perfect.

 

[JoLin]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

What caught my eye was the 'all digital instruments' dash. Make sure everything's working. If it fails you'll be praying a replacement shows up on eBay, or you may need to replace everything with analog gauges. Expensive proposition either way.

Obviously the motor is a 4.3 or small block V-8, but I also fall into the camp that thinks this boat will be too small for the size of your crew.

You can find some info here, too:

http://www.fourwinns.com/service/past_product

In any event, good luck.

My .02

 

[Joshua Nichols]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

What caught my eye was the 'all digital instruments' dash.

not digital... They are analog.. They just look like nightrider gauges

 

[JoLin]

Re: 1987 Four Winns 195 Sundowner

not digital... They are analog.. They just look like nightrider gauges

Yeah, I'll concede that, but they're hardly off the shelf. If that dash fails, the OP will be screwed.

My .02