1987 Johnson 90 - Block Rebuild Upgrade?

fmjnax

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I picked up an '87 Johnson 90hp V4 that hadn't run in 4+ years (history of engine unknown) for nearly nothing. In doing my preliminary checks, I was getting low compression (90-94-94-95). For piece of mind, I'm going to get a rebuilt short block. I'm restoring the hull from the trailer wheels up, so why not have a rebuilt engine as well.

I know a lot of parts are interchangeable for the V4 crossflows so I'm thinking of giving it a little bit of an upgrade while I am at it. Is it possible to take a rebuilt short block for a 110hp and have it bolt right up without issues? I know I'll need new orifices on the carbs, but is there anything else I would have to swap out?
 

matt167

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even compression is all that matters more than compression numbers. Those numbers are fine. .. Fire it up and see how it runs. it might take a bit to get compression back or even your gauge might be inaccurate, but if it will run, it will run good more or less.
 

flyingscott

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That motor will have a hard time running with those #s. I would soak the cylinders down in WD-40 and let it sit over nite. Then I would do a compression test. Are you sure the starter is turning fast enough? Maybe try a different gauge? I am pretty sure you will need new carbs for a 110 hp block not just orifices.You will need to compare part #s on Evinrudes part fiche to see what else you will need.
 

fmjnax

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Thanks guys. I'm really not sure what's up with it, which is really why I'm leaning towards just getting a rebuilt block. I basically "picked" the motor (and boat/trailer) out of a farmers field for $100. She didn't know the history of it other than it was her nephews boat. He had parked it there over 4 years ago and then got sent to jail (yes, I did get all of the titles... that was a requirement). She was tired of it sitting there and he wanted nothing to do with it anymore, so I got it for a steal.

Anyway, here's what I have done since picking it up. Flywheel turns freely, no binding. Control cables are good. Had to fill and bleed the tilt/trim system before I could get it off the hull. Then I pulled the carbs, inspected, and cleaned/rebuilt them. Then I drained the lower unit (was still full, no water or metal) and pulled it off. Water pump needs to be rebuilt of course. Electrical mostly checked out on the motor, surprisingly (though the rest of the wiring in the hull is shot). Fuel lines are also shot. The batteries were both toast so I pulled the battery from my travel trailer (a dual purpose 550CCA) and hooked it up. I pulled all 4 plugs and inspected. Didn't seem out of the ordinary and all 4 basically looked the same. I gave each cylinder a squirt of 2cycle oil and manually turned the flywheel to coat. Jumping the solenoid, I was only getting about 70-75# across all 4 cylinders, but then I realized my RV battery was only at 12.3V and it was a slow cranking. So while the battery was charging, I put more 2cycle oil in the cylinders, pulled the starter off and took it apart. All looked good, plenty of life in the brushes. I lubed it up, reassembled, and reinstalled. With the fresh battery, I applied voltage directly to the starter, bypassing the solenoid. Crank was much better, and that is where I was getting the current numbers. I checked again jumping he solenoid and got pretty much the same numbers.

Is my gauge off? I don't know. I've only used it a half-dozen times, but it's been YEARS since the last time I've used it. Next time I have to head to town (an hour trip), I'll see if I can borrow a gauge for comparison. I did pull the heads, though. Plenty of water corrosion in the water passages, but the actual cylinders and pistons look fine for the age of the engine. Heads barely have any sign of carbon. No pitting or embedded metal. All 4 cylinders were free of any debris. A small bit of carbon build up inside, but I've seen worse. Left bank (#2 and #4) basically look and feel perfect otherwise. A fingernail doesn't catch on anything. Doesn't seem to be any heat marks or anything else indicating a problem. Right bank (#1 and #3) both have a tiny chip out of the edge of the piston. #3 has no grooves for a fingernail to catch, but #1 has the slightest of scratches that you can just barely feel (but a fingernail still doesn't catch on). Otherwise, that bank looks and feels like the left bank.The small chips on the right bank COULD be a ring, but the fact that I get dang near the exact same compression numbers on all 4 cylinders, I'm not convinced.

Right now I'm leaning towards either my gauge being off, still a slow crank (I'm not sure how to tell for sure if it's cranking slow or not), or something internal. Like I said originally, I'm going to invest the time and money into rebuilding the hull so I'm also leaning towards investing the money into the "new" powerhead. I suppose I wouldn't really be out anything but my time to bolt it all back up and run it on the muffs to see just how it runs (or doesn't run, if that is the case). I'm sure that will help me come to a better conclusion.

Sorry to go down this little side journey. It's not really what I intended this thread to be. I'll snap some pictures of the cylinders tomorrow and upload to see if you guys spot something that my untrained eye didn't.
 

fmjnax

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Sorry for the double post here. I had a thought that I could check my compression gauge using my air compressor. Set the tank to 120 psi and hooked up the gauge. 120 on the dot. Repeated for 100 psi, 90 psi, 75 psi, and 50 psi. Gauge was spot on with the tank for all of them. So I guess my gauge is fine and my compression really is that low.
 

havoc_squad

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That motor will have a hard time running with those #s. I would soak the cylinders down in WD-40 and let it sit over nite. Then I would do a compression test. Are you sure the starter is turning fast enough? Maybe try a different gauge? I am pretty sure you will need new carbs for a 110 hp block not just orifices.You will need to compare part #s on Evinrudes part fiche to see what else you will need.

I believe the carb body itself is cross compatible for all hp variants for that year (88 SPL HP to 110 HP) and possibly a range of years.

I could be wrong (double check first), but I believe the only difference of a 1987 90 HP carb and 1987 110 HP carb is the idle air jets, intermediate jets, and main jets are all different.

Engine block differences are the intake and exhaust ports/cover at least I believe.

It should say on the parts schematics what jets go with the paricular HP engine. The parts schematics does not say which jets are for standard and which are for oversized cylinders.

Everything else on the carb should be the same.
 
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flyingscott

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I believe the carb body itself is cross compatible for all hp variants for that year (88 SPL HP to 110 HP) and possibly a range of years.

I could be wrong (double check first), but I believe the only difference of a 1987 90 HP carb and 1987 110 HP carb is the idle air jets, intermediate jets, and main jets are all different.

Engine block differences are the intake and exhaust ports/cover at least I believe.

It should say on the parts schematics what jets go with the paricular HP engine. The parts schematics does not say which jets are for standard and which are for oversized cylinders.

Everything else on the carb should be the same.

What about the Venturi size? Carb body will bolt to any V4 but to make more power you need more air and more fuel. The porting is different on a 110 block.
 
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havoc_squad

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What about the Venturi size? Carb body will bolt to any V4 but to make more power you need more air and more fuel. The porting is different on a 110 block.

I get it, the annoying thing is unless the information is stamped on the carb or easily acessible, visibility on those subtle details becomes poor when one doesn't deal with situations like this regularly.

Seeing different specifcation values or difference in certain parts of the carb sizes would have produced additional questions/red flags. In short, hands on exposure.

Kind of feels being spoiled on how easy it was and is to identify and source/find the correct carb from inboard 4 stroke motors/sterdrives.

I wonder how many variants/sizes does this produce then of these crossflows? The only part number info is the entire assembly for them.
 

flyingscott

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It prevents people from hopping up their motors and possibly creating an unsafe condition. And in this lawsuit happy society the factory does not want the liability. They may be the same but it needs to be checked.
 

jimmbo

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It is possible to turn a 99.6 cubic inch 90 into a 110, 112, 115 or even a 140. a bit of machining, and some parts and it is a done deal. It is also possible to get more than 160 hp out of that Block, with some serious machining and modifications.However it will not be a very good Recreational Outboard anymore, more suited for the Racing Circuit.

90 ports
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115/140 ports
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flyingscott

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It is possible to turn a 99.6 cubic inch 90 into a 110, 112, 115 or even a 140. a bit of machining, and some parts and it is a done deal. It is also possible to get more than 160 hp out of that Block, with some serious machining and modifications.However it will not be a very good Recreational Outboard anymore, more suited for the Racing Circuit.

90 ports


115/140 ports

But can the OP take his 90 hp carbs and put them on a 110 block and have it work.
 

jimmbo

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The engine would run, but the carbs for the 90 are too small to get enough breath for a deeper breathing engine, so it would hit a plateau in the power/torque curve
The 115s, 135s, and most of the 140s shared the same sized carbs, but the fuel delivery curve may have varied due to differences in Exhaust Tuning. Early 140s had slightly bigger carbs, but later ones were smaller
 
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flyingscott

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So I would not give up on that block yet. Anything that has sat in a field for that amount of time will have corrosion. I would clean all the electrical connections to shiny brite. I would then take the starter apart and make sure that is clean and spinning as fast as it should. A slow spinning starter will have low compression #s.
 

fmjnax

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Thanks guys. Good discussion on the upgrade possibility! It sounds like I'm probably best to just stick with a 90 block if/when I decide to give up on the current block.

Sorry for the delay. I haven't much time to go out to the boat this past week. I went out today and snapped some pictures of the cylinders. Here's what we're looking at (large pictures so you can see the detail).

#1 (upper port side)
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#2 (upper starboard side)
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#3 (lower port side)
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#4 (lower starboard side)
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fmjnax

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Hmmm, for some reason my post last night didn't trigger a thread update. Apologies for the "bump"
 

racerone

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Everyone of these V-4 crossflow motors will suffer the same fate.----Just so common to see that damage.-----Easy to rebuild in my opinion.
 

fmjnax

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I’m no pro. I’m just a very mechanically inclined backyard diy’er so I don’t know what “normal” should look like. Does the block/cylinders look bad? If so, can you help explain what you see to warrant a rebuild (or what I should be looking for to determine if t is good or bad)?
 

racerone

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???----The #1 cylinder is the upper cylinder on the starboard side.----This motor needs to be rebuilt !!
 

havoc_squad

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Likely find a ring or two broken

With no fragments damage on the clyinder head? No picture was posted of them, but from the photos of the lower two cylinders messed up with no pits in piston head, that does not look like broken rings.

More looks like the carb on the bottom cylinders ran lean due to clogging and scored up the cylinder walls.
 
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