1987 Mercruiser 3.0L/Alpha One - dumb questions

[AlabamaNewbie]

My son and I are restoring an old Glasstream with this engine and outdrive. It doesn't run - but its an electrical issue that we will have done this weekend.

Before we actually start it though, I know I need to ensure water for cooling. I think I understand correctly that the impeller is in the outdrive. On either side, there are series' of holes - about 10 on each side. Is this where the water goes in for the impeller to pick up and deliver to the engine?

Next question, assuming that answer is yes - will a set of muffs work over this?

Like I said - dumb questions, just trying to make sure I am understanding it all correctly. We have a good engine and outdrive, I'd hate to screw that up by assuming something wrong.

Thanks!

Mod EDIT: title change test

 

[alldodge]

Yes on both accounts
Put muffs on, turn water on, then fire it up

That said, it sounds like you haven't changed the impeller yet. Suggest you do this

 

[AlabamaNewbie]

Its on the short list of things to do, and will definitely be done before the boat sees the water. This is our first boat project, so there is a bit of a learning curve Right now, our biggest priority is getting the engine to run. I have a lot of hull work and seat work to do and we won't even consider starting on the tear down if we can't make the engine run. We got the boat for a steal, but it needs a ton of TLC. An engine rebuild is out of the question.

It has good compression on all cylinders, oil is clean, fuel gets to the cylinders, but no spark. We changed the ignition coil and are getting voltage in, and we have voltage out of the coil center wire, but we aren't getting anything to the plug wires. We already ordered a distributor cap, rotor, condenser, and points - which will be here tomorrow. If that's not the problem, then the only thing left would be sweat equity in running down all of the wires and testing. But I'm not willing to put any more money in to it until the engine at least runs for a minute or 2.

Thanks for your help!

 

[alldodge]

You could remove the drive and connect the garden hose to the hose that comes from the drive to the thermostat housing (or direct to the thermostat housing). This way your not turning the drive and pump until after you have a chance to drain lube and inspect it.

 

[Rick Stephens]

I would recommend the same thing as AD - pull the drive - takes 15 minutes or less, 6 bolts, put the shift lever in forward gear, pull the pin on the trim rams and slide the drive off. A cutoff garden hose in the water inlet port. Fire up.

Got my fingers crossed for you.

Rick

 

[poconojoe]

There are no "stupid" questions. If you don't understand something, just ask. Don't be embarrassed or feel "stupid". Boat repairs can be expensive and you don't want to risk messing up because you were afraid to ask. The members here are very knowledgeable and friendly. No snobs here! Good luck with your project.
Oh, if you pull the drive as suggested, you will need a gasket kit for reinstall. Get the impeller changed too. You don't know when it was last changed and you don't want to overheat the engine.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Its on the short list of things to do, and will definitely be done before the boat sees the water. This is our first boat project, so there is a bit of a learning curve Right now, our biggest priority is getting the engine to run. I have a lot of hull work and seat work to do and we won't even consider starting on the tear down if we can't make the engine run. We got the boat for a steal, but it needs a ton of TLC. An engine rebuild is out of the question.

It has good compression on all cylinders, oil is clean, fuel gets to the cylinders, but no spark. We changed the ignition coil and are getting voltage in, and we have voltage out of the coil center wire, but we aren't getting anything to the plug wires. We already ordered a distributor cap, rotor, condenser, and points - which will be here tomorrow. If that's not the problem, then the only thing left would be sweat equity in running down all of the wires and testing. But I'm not willing to put any more money in to it until the engine at least runs for a minute or 2.

Thanks for your help!

plenty of stickies on points ignition. you will need a dwell meter and timing light. file points, install, set to 0.016" with feeler gauge or match book, adjust with dwell meter, install rotor, install cap, install wires, fire motor, set timing.

the motor is the easy part.

I would pull the drive as mentioned since you didnt do any drive maintenance.

your comment on hull and interior work on your 33 year old boat would be a strong indicator of rot. hull restoration will be the hard part

 

[AlabamaNewbie]

She's alive!!!!!!! (1986 Mercruiser 3.0L)

Bought this junk boat for very little. Needs complete restoration, but the first thing was the engine. It wouldn't start, but the it appeared to be in ok shape (no water in oil, no signs of a cracked block, etc). This was the test to see if we were even going to worry with the rest, or just stop and take it to the junk yard. It's a project boat for me (shadetree mechanic) and my son (aircraft mechanic). We knew the motor, for us, was the easy part. If we couldn't get it going, then the rest was hopeless.

Replaced ignition coil, plugs, distributor cap, rotor, points, and condenser. This is the first attempt to start it (and honestly, I have no clue the last time it ran before we got it),


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZlMAbzlJXE

and then after it warmed up a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUDtx_G91yk



I consider this a win! A few things found during running though. The exhaust manifold has a crack that seeps water out. Not a huge problem, I can weld that. Welding cast iron is hard, but not impossible, and if its metal - I can weld it. So that's not a big deal. The drive shaft bellows has a tear in it, so that will have to be replaced. We suspected there would be additional things we needed to do, and was already going to pull the drive anyway, so that's ok. The alternator is not charging the battery, so that was an unexpected. Hopefully we can find a rebuild kit for that instead of replacing the entire alternator, since that was totally not in our budget.

I still haven't been able to get the tilt/trim to work.

Now that we know the engine runs, this weekend I start breaking down the interior.

 

[Scott Danforth]

get a new manifold, dont try to weld it. because they will leak internally into the exhaust ports and that in turn will hydro-lock your motor at a minimum

heck, you can get complete running 3.0 motors for about 300 or less if you look around they are usually in rotten hulled boats needing full restoration.

 

[AlabamaNewbie]

Normally I would be afraid of hydrolocking, but this crack is a small, one inch crack on the outside of the manifold. It may get replaced after a season, but for this initial resto I have to save that money for the hull repairs.

My dad was a welder by profession, and worked at nuclear plants. He taught me to weld when I was still single digits. I know very little about a lot of things, but welding is my wheel house.

 

[GA_Boater]

ALNewbie - Combined your new thread in with this one cuz both threads are motor related and thread history is all in one place. Less confusion for members offering advice this way.

A Mod can change the thread title if you want - It's others asking the dumb questions! LOL

 

[AlabamaNewbie]

ALNewbie - Combined your new thread in with this one cuz both threads are motor related and thread history is all in one place. Less confusion for members offering advice this way.

A Mod can change the thread title if you want - It's others asking the dumb questions! LOL

Thanks! When I was making the new thread I thought "should I just add on to that one?" but I thought since they weren't dealing with the same thing really, maybe I should do it separate. If you want, you can just change it to "1987 Mercruiser 3.0L/Alpha One - dumb questions" ( I found out it was an 87 and not 86, and I am sure I will have plenty more dumb questions!)

 

[AlabamaNewbie]

On the note of dumb questions - here is another....

So I had this running last night, and it actually sounded pretty good. I opened the throttle up to almost WOT, slowly going little by little. Then I would go down slowly, and slowly back up. It was responding very nicely.

Then I just dropped it from WOT to idle quickly, and it died. Still turns over, nothing sounds slung apart - so we assumed I flooded it. Meh, it happens, I thought. So we put her to bed because we were really done for the night anyway.

Today - it won't start. Turns over good, nothing sounds out of whack, but it won't start at all. My next thought was that I jumped time - so I will check that when I get home from work today.

What else could it be?

 

[Rick Stephens]

Glad your motor sounded good last night. Small recommendation, you need to keep reading up before doing damage to stuff through small ignorances. I would recommend, as would many many posts here, that you never run much over 1500 RPM on the hose. Problem is that your impeller can suck the hose dry and burn itself out. A garden hose will usually not supply enough water. Besides, there is usually no purpose in running high RPMs with no load. Just downsides.

I would think it probable that any crap settled into the bottom of an old carb got sucked up with the throttle chop and subsequent high vacuum event, possibly plugging up your ports. Nothing else should change from that.

3.0 L engine has timing gears, not a chain. It didn't skip. You need two things right now - spark and fuel. If it don't start one of those is missing.

 

[AlabamaNewbie]

3.0 L engine has timing gears, not a chain. It didn't skip. You need two things right now - spark and fuel. If it don't start one of those is missing.

After posting that I went and looked online and saw that, and realized that IF it jumped time, then I would have known immediately by the shrapnel embedded in my body.

 

[GA_Boater]

I change the title as soon as the software allows, being obstinate this afternoon.

It will be "1987 Mercruiser 3.0L/Alpha One - dumb questions" as soon as I can.

 

[AlabamaNewbie]

Thanks!!

iI found the problem with it not wanting to start. The screw holding the points is stripped and not holding it in place, so i lost my gap. Fixed and vroooom.

 

[poconojoe]

Thanks!!

iI found the problem with it not wanting to start. The screw holding the points is stripped and not holding it in place, so i lost my gap. Fixed and vroooom.

That's great news!

 

[AlabamaNewbie]

Pulled the trim motor/pump today. The tank and pump had some nasty clumps of sludge. Cleaned it real good, but the motor itself was siezed. Tore it down, cleaned the armature and stator with some steel wool, blew out all of the dust, reassembled, and boom - I resurrected the tilt/trim from the dead.

Found that the drive shaft bellow has a tear in it, so next comes the removal of the drive.

 

[AlabamaNewbie]

Well, I resurrected the trim motor and pump from the dead, at least. Trim motor purrs like a kitten, pumps fluid through like a dream.

Right through the huge cracks in the trim cylinder housings that we never even noticed or thought to look at. :grumpy:

Looks like to me that the PO had a seal leak, trim stopped working, he didn't want to put money in it, and parked it with water in the cylinders fully trimmed out. Winter came, water froze, and blam. Both cracks are pushing outward, so that's the only thing that makes sense to me.

And these flippin' things aren't cheap.:grumpy::mad-new::facepalm: