1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

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DJ

Guest
Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

Rhythmic does not fit an electrical issue, in my book.<br /><br />Who's fuel tank did the dealer run it from?<br /><br />Do you have inboard or portable fuel tanks?
 

fireman57

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Aug 24, 2004
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Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

Sorry, I'm not trying to hijack this post. DJ I've been trying to follow most of these posts to pick up some more knowledge. I'm just a backyarder and try to help out the neighbors. So far I've been lucky and have been able to fix their outboards but I'm curious why you would determine that the rythmic cutout would not be an electrical issue? Seems like as Ralcarcon said it wouldn't be fuel. It seems like a fuel issue would be more sporadic not something that you could tap your foot to.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

fireman57,<br /><br />I'm not saying that electrical can be ruled out, it just doesn't, in my opinion, look that way.<br /><br />Electrical issues; shorts, open circuits, etc., tend to be very random. Just my experience.<br /><br />If it is electrical, I would say that he has issues with heat. Such as coils dropping out. We are not there so we cannot experience it. That makes it a tough one.<br /> :( <br />I also think that a dyno diagnosis (dealer) does not always replicate a real world issue. It's a great tool, but not magic.<br /><br />I still think he has a fuel issue or a gear case jumping. My thinking says that the carbs very temporarily run out or are low on fuel. Thus he feels a miss or surge. Don't know for sure. I'm not there.<br /><br />That is why I asked about the fuel situation. Let's look at all angles. Eliminate the cheapest and easiest to fix first. :) <br /><br />Haven't heard back yet. We'll see. ;)
 

redmopar

Seaman
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Nov 30, 2004
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58
Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

Just for the sake of brainstorming. Obviously there is a condition that the motor/electrical system is exposed to on water that it is not on the dyno. The most obvious is vibration to the hull but the other is turning the motor. Do y'all there could be a problem in the wiring harness and a short or open circuit when the motor turns? Cracked fuel line? How about the fuel sloshing in the tank with a bad pickup? Different trim position?<br />My .02
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

redmopar,<br /><br />I'm not thinking that way. "Rhythmic" puzzles me. Electronics don't typically act that way. Just my opinion.<br /><br />Let's wait to see what he has to say about the fuel situatiuon.
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
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13,262
Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

I just read over everything listed pertaining to this "shut off, cut back on problem" and frankly I've never heard of such a problem.<br /><br />This has me wondering if the "off/on" scenario might be, as "Walker" suggested above "Skipping" rather than having the engine shut off, than back on. If so, the sensation would be that every so often the engine is hitting something underwater... a jerking sensation. Should this be the case, the problem would only be evident only when in the water and at one of the higher rpm settings.<br /><br />Should this be the case......<br /><br />(Jumping Out Of Gear - Manual Type)<br />(J. Reeves)<br />This pertains to lower units on all OMC manual shift outboard engines, or any OMC engine with lower units defined as a Shift Assist or a Hydro Electric Shift unit which incorporates a "Shifter Clutch Dog".<br /> <br />Within the lower unit, splined to the prop shaft is what is most often referred to as a clutch dog, hereafter simply called dog. The dog has at least two lobes protruding from it on both ends, facing both forward and reverse gear. The forward and reverse gears also have lobes built into them near their center area. When the engine is running, in neutral, the gears are spinning constantly via the driveshaft being connected directly to the powerhead crankshaft, but the propeller does not turn due to the fact that the dog is centered between the two gears, and the dog lobes are not touching either of the gear lobes.<br /> <br />When the unit is put into either gear, shift linkages force the dog (and its lobes of course) to engage the lobes of the the gear. The lobes of the spinning gear grab the lobes of the dog, and since the dog is splined to the prop shaft, the propeller turns.<br /><br />The lobes of the dog and gears are percisely machined, most with right angled edges that could be installed in either direction, and some with angles slightly varied that must be installed in one direction only (one end only must face the propeller). Dogs that can be installed in one direction only, if reversed, even if the dog and both gears were new.... would jump out of gear almost immediately. Keep in mind that the lobes are percisely machined with sharp angles!<br /> <br />Due to improper adjustment or worn shift linkages, but usually due to improper slow shifting, those percisely machined sharp edges of the lobes become slightly rounded. Now, with those lobes rounded, as the rpms increase, the pressure of the gear lobes upon the dog lobes increases to a point whereas they are forced apart (jumping out of gear), and due (usually) to the shift cable keeping tension on the engines shift linkages..... the unit is forced back into gear giving one the sensation that the engine has hit something, and the cycle continues.<br /> <br />Some boaters have the mistaken belief that shifting slowly is taking it easy on all of the shifting components..... Wrong! Shifting slowly allows those percisely machined sharp edges of the dog and gears to click, clank, bang, slam against each other many times before they are finally forced into alignment with each other..... and this is what rounds those edges off! The proper way to shift is to snap the unit into gear as quickly as possible.
 

fireman57

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Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

Looks like I opened a can of worms here. Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. I like Joe Reeves explanation. DJ I'm not discounting your opinion one bit. I'm glad all you guys are active in this forum. I guess we'll see what Ralkarcon comes up with.
 

ralkarcon

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Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

I have spoken with a rebuilder of gearbox lower units and he felf the problem could be shift adjustment or the clutch dog and mating gears are worn. My systems match those of a worn clutch dog. I also contacted again the two repair shops and they agree with Joe. <br />I have readjusted the shift linkage and will test again at the lake this week and if the problem remains then I will have the lower unit rebuilt to the tune of $800 to $1200.<br /><br />Thanks to Joe. I think he is on the right path.<br /><br />Ralph
 

angus63

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Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

Guys, does it really make sense that a rythmic "shutting off" every 12 seconds would occur if it was a lower end issue. Wouldn't you expect the time interval to lessen under greater speeds (loads) and increase when speed (load) decreases? Or at the very least be sporadic? Ralph, does the interval change (12 sec) when speed is changed? Does the interval change if you are alone and then add 4 people? A rythmic steady problem at varying loads points me to an electric/thermal issue and not a mechanical one. Just my opinion........
 

Walker

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Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

ralkarcon, when you take it out for the test run disconnect the shift cable completely and shift it by hand. That way you can be sure its shifting all the way. And try both forward and reverse. If your shift cable is stretched there is a possibility the shift linkage won't move completely through its intended range.
 

Jeff Walkowiak

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Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

I would first get a 6 gallon fuel tank with a totally different fuel line and pump ball that is in good shape borrow one if you can ,, run the engine on that and see if it continues to shut down sounds like a fuel problem, I had a new pump ball with a defective valve and it drove me crazy did exactly what you describe, another time I had a loose hose fitting and the engine fluctuated constantly at high rpm I use clear lines now and can actually see the fuel going to the engine if there is any trouble it will be visible, another time I had a 140 v4 that would run great al low speed but on acceleration would fall on it's face no shop could find the problem it turned out to be an obstruction in one circut of one of the carbs. In one boat I had duel tanks the engine would shut down when on the left tank only I removed the tank and found an oak leaf from a tree in the tank it would get sucked up to the pick up tube and stop the fuel, since it keeps doing it at a certain time I really think it is a fuel problem clear vinyl fuel line even if it is only a small section where the fuel enters the engine will show if you are pulling air bubbles or if there is an obstruction blocking the fuel, so give it a try and hope it helps.
 

Jeff Walkowiak

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Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

there is an anti reverse clip under your fly wheel that prevents it from accidently starting up backward as a 2 stroke can run in either direction, this clip may be defective and grounding the ignition or one of the kill wires is shorting to ground and shutting off the ignition, a bad rectifier could also play hell with your electrical system.Also be sure the main plug for the wire harness is clean and dry, and not corroded it sits low on the cowling by the powerhead, I had one get salt water in it and it was a big problem.
 

Joe Reeves

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Feb 24, 2002
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13,262
Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

Jeff... For informative purposes only, not a slam.<br /><br />The anti reverse cutout spring was used only in a few models and was eliminated starting with the 1973 models.
 

Jeff Walkowiak

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Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

It's rough to get old, been a while since I worked on any omc stuff thanks for the info. my expertise is mainly in jet ski engines and pumps now but before they appeared on the planet I worked on a lot of johnsons and evenrudes a long time ago in a land far far away LOL
 

ralkarcon

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Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts. I feel I have determined the problem to be a worn clutch dog and the forward gear. I discussed with several boat shops I located online. I have obtained estimates of $800 to $1200 depending on the parts needed to replace the clutch and gears. I expect to replace them all and spend the $1,200. <br /><br />The $1,200 will actually be to rebuild the lower unit including seals, water pump and the forward and reverse gears and the clutch gear as they will all be worn some.<br /><br />I will have the repairs done soon and will post the results. Wish me luck......<br /><br />Ralph
 

Walker

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Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

Glad you identified the problem, but sorry its gonna cost so much to fix. Thanks for posting back with your findings. Everyone learns when we get reports of the final diagnosis.
 

v12mac

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Oct 30, 2003
Messages
502
Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

Why drop $1200? Plenty of good gear cases in the bone yard. If you have the patence to look and inspect. <br /><br />Mac
 

ralkarcon

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Nov 11, 2004
Messages
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Re: 1988 90 HP Johnson shutting off

Good news! My motor is fixed. As stated I thought the ignition was shutting off. However the problem was the clutch in the lower unit. The clutch and some other parts were replaced and the problem was fixed. I was at the lake yesterday and the motor worked great. The fishing was poor however.<br /><br />The cost was about $1,000 for the clutch /lower unit replacement and repair. <br /><br />Thanks to all of you for your time and suggestions.<br /><br />Ralph
 
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